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Once China introduces the EV equivalent of the Chevy Spark (which was one of the cheapest ICE cars ever, with an MSRP of $13K just last year) in the USA, that h
by endisneigh 4y ago
Once China introduces the EV equivalent of the Chevy Spark (which was one of the cheapest ICE cars ever, with an MSRP of $13K just last year) in the USA, that has a range of around 100 to 150 miles it's game over for many of these American manufacturers on the econobox type vehicles.
American and European price gouging will come to an end soon enough.
Assuming that range is cut in half during the winter in the coldest scenarios and the average American commute, one way is 25 miles, 150 miles will be more than enough to replace most ICE cars. That being said, destination on a car from China probably costs $2K alone, so reaching a 13K price point anytime soon will be very, very difficult.
Supposedly the BYD Seagull can go 200KM and costs $9K in China, so we'll see. Exciting times ahead. (For reference Jiangnan used to sell ICE cars in China several years ago for less than $2K, so even though EV is cheap absolutely compared to USA, it's still much more expensive than what China could make if they continued to make ICE cars. That being said 2030 will result in banning of ICE in many regions)
- bryanlarsen 4y agoBYD Seagull. $9,000. 74hp engine. 30kWh battery, which is good for 300km using WLTP, so probably 150 miles using EPA methods. Euro safety spec.
- belltaco 4y ago> Once China introduces the EV equivalent of the Chevy Spark (which was one of the cheapest ICE cars ever, with an MSRP of $13K just last year), that has a range of around 100 to 150 miles it's game over for many of these American manufacturers. > American and European price gouging will come to an end soon enough. Just like how cheap Android phones in Asia resulted game over for Apple, Samsung etc. in the past 12 years?
- endisneigh 4y agoIn the low end market, that has been the case.
- dazilcher 4y ago> Once China introduces the EV equivalent of the Chevy Spark [...] it's game over for many of these American manufacturers. Then why aren't the streets full of Chevy Sparks?
- endisneigh 4y agoThough cheap, the Chevy Spark had a notoriously bad transmission. This is a similar problem the Nissan Versa has, which is similarly cheap. An EV doesn't have a transmission, fortunately, so that class of problem isn't a thing. The problem with cheap cars is that cheap ICE components result in the car failing unnecessarily early. EVs can also fail, obviously, but it's less likely to happen due to design differences.
- nebula8804 4y agoThere is no redeeming factor of the Spark other than price. And history shows that is not a guarantee at the top of car sales. Just look at the Versa (as you mentioned) and the Mitsubishi mirage. In the following list there is no real cheap car there. [1]:https://www.caranddriver.com/news/g39628015/best-selling-cars-2022/ https://www.caranddriver.com/news/g39628015/best-selling-car...
- endisneigh 4y ago#5 is the Toyota Camry, which is cheap. #12 is also cheap, as is #13, #16, #18, etc. I consider cheap to be under $30K. This is calculated by looking at the median car sale price for new cars and taking the beginning of the 2nd quartile. Or to put it another way, cheap is when about 75% of cars are more expensive. The Versa, Mirage and Spark would be firmly in the "cheapest" category, where 95% of cars are more expensive. Of course, they are also in the "cheap" category, but a car doesn't need to cost that little to be considered cheap (for a brand new car).
- nebula8804 4y agoThe Toyota Camry is not in the same boat as the Spark. I guess we need to clarify. You examples are talking about bottom of the barrel cheap (9K-16K in 2023). The Camry is cheap but at 26K base it is not in the same segment as the cars you describe.
- nebula8804 4y agoThe Domestic brands purposely ceded the small car market years ago. They got out of that segment completely. They focus on Crossovers, SUV, and Trucks and do quite well there. If anything the Japanese and Koreans will have trouble since they are still in that segment and sell a lot of small cars in the US. Are you even American? This has been common on the ground knowledge for years. The Chevy Spark was a flop in the US and for good reason. It is an absolutely abysmal car. I could see 100-150 mi small EVs have reasonable sales in some city markets but other than that? Its just not what Americans want. They want something that stands a chance competing with all the other big cars on the road.
- endisneigh 4y agoThey ceded the small car market because they were getting stomped on by foreign companies. Are you even American? The Toyota Camry, which is a relatively cheap car, is still #5 in top selling vehicles. If you remove trucks, it's #2. When was the last time an American car (not truck), with an MSRP less than 30K has been in the top 5 selling vehicles? Americans can't compete on price, and so they stopped trying.
- piva00 4y ago> Americans can't compete on price, and so they stopped trying. I think Americans could probably but most American companies are just finance companies with some product attached to it. Trucks, for example, have been pushed by American car companies because they can skirt emissions laws through more lax regulations, instead of trying to build a proper less polluting car under these regulations these companies prefer to skirt them, convince consumers through deceptive marketing that "trucks are safer for your family"-type of shenanigans to make a quick buck rather than compete. It's sad to see it happening, instead of "innovation" American companies prefer to use deception on a market because it's cheaper. It's just being cheap under the auspices of bean counters...
- taylodl 4y agoIt's not the bean counters. Beware people wielding MBAs. They will stifle all innovation and bleed a once-successful company dry. Remember, they exist to extract value for the shareholders. You can't extract forever.
- SongofEarth 4y agoThe winner of Chinese car export might be the one with the most ships. These days car shipping is in really high demand, and cost has been rising in recent years, but shipping cost could be lower given that BYD is build their own shipping fleet. https://qz.com/chinese-car-makers-are-becoming-shipping-companies-1849943579 https://qz.com/chinese-car-makers-are-becoming-shipping-comp... https://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2022-12-04/china-carmakers-are-ordering-their-own-ships-to-get-export-ready https://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2022-12-04/china-car...
- HDThoreaun 4y agoWhy wouldn't they build American factories like the japanese and korean automakers?
- bryanlarsen 4y agoThey are planning on building a European factory.
- dagw 4y agoSupposedly the BYD Seagull can go 200KM and costs $9K in China At least in Europe, BYD is trying hard to not to appear as a 'cheap' brand. The cheapest car they sell here (Sweden) costs more than the VW ID3, and their flagship SUV is close to the starting price of the BMW iX.
- taylodl 4y agoThe average American drives 40 miles per day. A car with 150 mile range gives the average American 3 days of driving while keep 10% <= battery charge <= 90%. That's not bad! The average EV consumes 34.6 kWh per 100 miles, so a 52 kWh battery is sufficient, on average. The average home charger provides 7.2 kWh so it'll take under six hours to recharge the car at home. You can do it at night when favorable rates are available. It'll add an extra 72 kWh hours to your utility bill for the month. Even in the most expensive part of the country (USA), the Northeast, you're only going to pay $1 per day. And I could get it for under $20K? Sign me up! If BYD/Toyota could bring such a car to the American market then it's game over for the compact and subcompact market.