5 ms·

not only competition but compliance. The legal obligations a car manufacturer has to satisfy in the EU nowadays is wild, IUPR, OBFCM, WLTP are just the programs

not only competition but compliance. The legal obligations a car manufacturer has to satisfy in the EU nowadays is wild, IUPR, OBFCM, WLTP are just the programs regarding emission checks. There are many many more.

jacquesm 3y ago
Good point. This may in fact be the thing that BYD expects to get out of the Toyota relationship.
- bryanlarsen 3y ago
  From what I understand many BYD vehicles already have Euro safety specs. Including, incredibly, the $9,000 Seagull.
  - jacquesm 3y ago
    Apparently they'll start selling here in NL in Q4/23, I will definitely go and have a look at them to see what they've made.
- jensgk 3y ago
  BYD is already sold in the EU, so all legal obligations has been done. See byd.dk
  - jacquesm 3y ago
    Indeed! Thank you for that link. The pricing is off the scale though is this a Danish thing or is it just that Byd is that expensive?
    - dagw 3y ago
      While their entry level car (Atto) is the same price as the cheapest spec Tesla model 3. Their Tesla model S and X equivalents (Han and Tang, respectively) start at almost half the price of the respective Teslas. On the whole BYD don't seem to be wanting to compete at the bottom end of the market and are pricing their cars around the same level of their 'competitors'. They don't want to offer the cheapest electric SUV or even best the 'cheap' SUV, they want to offer best $80k electric SUV.
      - jacquesm 3y ago
        That suggests they aren't really competitors though, so either Tesla will have to drop to the point where they won't be profitable any more or there are substantial quality differences. BYD's vertical integration may become the differentiating factor if they can get the public to trust the brand.
        dagw 3y ago
        Based on their marketing and pricing it seems their base pitch is "get a $100+k 'worth' of electric SUV for $80k". So they're competitors in the sense that they're targeting people who just about have Teslas Model X or BMW iX money, but would still like a bargain.
        jacquesm 3y ago
        Interesting, ok time will tell how that will play out. Around me people are mostly rooting for MB/VW/BMW rather than American or Chinese. This is mostly a matter of perception and the dealer network and service organizations. Tesla has a very bad rep in that sense (though I do know people that have Tesla's too and they appear to be happy enough with their cars), it's all good as long as there are no problems and after that is a huge problem. Polestar presents very well here, right now they have a better rep than Tesla which I find quite impressive, given that they are manufactured in China and sold by a relatively new sales organization. What is interesting is that somehow they've managed to sidestep the Chinese reputation issue completely and people perceive them as European, which they really are not.
        piva00 3y ago
        > Polestar presents very well here, right now they have a better rep than Tesla which I find quite impressive, given that they are manufactured in China and sold by a relatively new sales organization. What is interesting is that somehow they've managed to sidestep the Chinese reputation issue completely and people perceive them as European, which they really are not. I believe it's because Polestar attached itself to the Volvo brand, which is owned by Geely but is still run mostly independently in Sweden. The confusion is probably on purpose, and Polestar cars seem to be pretty good (from the reports of the few I know that own one).
    - deleted 3y ago
      [deleted]
    - agurk 3y ago
      Danish pricing is off the scale due to the very high registration tax, on top of the 25% VAT. Registration rates are of the value including VAT[0]: 25% of DKK 65,800 85% of DKK 65,800-204,600 150% of the rest. This is actually a bit cheaper than it was a few years ago when the top tax amount was 180%. There are some deductions for electric vehicles that are complex (and decreasing) that are best read about on the linked page. [0] https://skat.dk/data.aspx?oid=2244599 https://skat.dk/data.aspx?oid=2244599
      - jensgk 3y ago
        I thought it was still 180%. I haven't noticed that prices on new cars has become cheaper.
trasz3 3y ago
Emission checks for EVs?
leoedin 3y ago
The big Chinese car companies are managing to build compliant vehicles now. BYD, SAIC, Great Wall and Geely all sell vehicles into the EU market. It's hard, but it's not like the barrier to entry is so high these companies can't meet it.
deleted 3y ago
[deleted]

jacquesm 3y ago

Good point. This may in fact be the thing that BYD expects to get out of the Toyota relationship.

bryanlarsen 3y ago
From what I understand many BYD vehicles already have Euro safety specs. Including, incredibly, the $9,000 Seagull.
- jacquesm 3y ago
  Apparently they'll start selling here in NL in Q4/23, I will definitely go and have a look at them to see what they've made.
jensgk 3y ago
BYD is already sold in the EU, so all legal obligations has been done. See byd.dk
- jacquesm 3y ago
  Indeed! Thank you for that link. The pricing is off the scale though is this a Danish thing or is it just that Byd is that expensive?
  - dagw 3y ago
    While their entry level car (Atto) is the same price as the cheapest spec Tesla model 3. Their Tesla model S and X equivalents (Han and Tang, respectively) start at almost half the price of the respective Teslas. On the whole BYD don't seem to be wanting to compete at the bottom end of the market and are pricing their cars around the same level of their 'competitors'. They don't want to offer the cheapest electric SUV or even best the 'cheap' SUV, they want to offer best $80k electric SUV.
    - jacquesm 3y ago
      That suggests they aren't really competitors though, so either Tesla will have to drop to the point where they won't be profitable any more or there are substantial quality differences. BYD's vertical integration may become the differentiating factor if they can get the public to trust the brand.
      - dagw 3y ago
        Based on their marketing and pricing it seems their base pitch is "get a $100+k 'worth' of electric SUV for $80k". So they're competitors in the sense that they're targeting people who just about have Teslas Model X or BMW iX money, but would still like a bargain.
        jacquesm 3y ago
        Interesting, ok time will tell how that will play out. Around me people are mostly rooting for MB/VW/BMW rather than American or Chinese. This is mostly a matter of perception and the dealer network and service organizations. Tesla has a very bad rep in that sense (though I do know people that have Tesla's too and they appear to be happy enough with their cars), it's all good as long as there are no problems and after that is a huge problem. Polestar presents very well here, right now they have a better rep than Tesla which I find quite impressive, given that they are manufactured in China and sold by a relatively new sales organization. What is interesting is that somehow they've managed to sidestep the Chinese reputation issue completely and people perceive them as European, which they really are not.
        piva00 3y ago
        > Polestar presents very well here, right now they have a better rep than Tesla which I find quite impressive, given that they are manufactured in China and sold by a relatively new sales organization. What is interesting is that somehow they've managed to sidestep the Chinese reputation issue completely and people perceive them as European, which they really are not. I believe it's because Polestar attached itself to the Volvo brand, which is owned by Geely but is still run mostly independently in Sweden. The confusion is probably on purpose, and Polestar cars seem to be pretty good (from the reports of the few I know that own one).
  - deleted 3y ago
    [deleted]
  - agurk 3y ago
    Danish pricing is off the scale due to the very high registration tax, on top of the 25% VAT. Registration rates are of the value including VAT[0]: 25% of DKK 65,800 85% of DKK 65,800-204,600 150% of the rest. This is actually a bit cheaper than it was a few years ago when the top tax amount was 180%. There are some deductions for electric vehicles that are complex (and decreasing) that are best read about on the linked page. [0] https://skat.dk/data.aspx?oid=2244599 https://skat.dk/data.aspx?oid=2244599
    - jensgk 3y ago
      I thought it was still 180%. I haven't noticed that prices on new cars has become cheaper.

trasz3 3y ago

Emission checks for EVs?

leoedin 3y ago

The big Chinese car companies are managing to build compliant vehicles now. BYD, SAIC, Great Wall and Geely all sell vehicles into the EU market. It's hard, but it's not like the barrier to entry is so high these companies can't meet it.

deleted 3y ago

[deleted]