4 ms·

For me, it’s not just that. It’s that they chose to investigate spilled coffee (which is assault although the police weren’t involved so makes me think it didn’

For me, it’s not just that. It’s that they chose to investigate spilled coffee (which is assault although the police weren’t involved so makes me think it didn’t warrant their assault label) reported not by the student but by a third party who claimed to witness it, but did not investigate the sexual assault charges against the coffee spillee. So Stanford is selectively investigating seemingly spurious charges against weak people rather than more serious charges against powerful people. So it’s a pretty cruel systemic bullying. And seems to reinforce my perception (perhaps wrong) that it’s a bullshit system that just wants to stay active and not actually do anything.

psychlops 4y ago
Where did you read that it was a sexual assault?
- colpabar 4y ago
  https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/2022/nov/24/katie-meyer-stanford-lawsuit-soccer-death https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/2022/nov/24/katie-meyer-...
  - psychlops 4y ago
    Ah, an unwanted kiss. I think, in the real world, spilling some (warmish) coffee on someone is a reasonable retaliation for an unwanted kiss. Once it enters the bureaucracy then they get called assault and require disciplinary action.
    - jonahrd 4y ago
      Where do you read that it's an "unwanted kiss"? Maybe I'm just missing it, but I've looked through this article 3 times and can only see it referred to as a sexual assault.
      - psychlops 4y ago
        In this article: https://www.latimes.com/california/story/2022-11-26/stanford-soccer-player-katie-meyer-wrongful-death-lawsuit https://www.latimes.com/california/story/2022-11-26/stanford... "The university defended its response to the alleged sexual assault on Meyer’s teammate — described as an unwanted kiss — by saying the incident was reported to its Title IX office, which decided against moving forward with an investigation, and local police."
        chasd00 4y ago
        How does the university have authority to decide to go to the police or not? I'm always confused when people report crimes against them to a church, school, or some other organization and then the organization decides not to engage the police or legal. The victim is just suppose to shrug and say "oh well, i guess i'm just out of luck!". The victim should go straight to the police and report a crime was committed against them. At least leave it up to actual investigators to make a decision if a crime was committed or not and not some third party with motive to sweep it under the rug.
        alexb_ 4y ago
        >The victim should go straight to the police and report a crime was committed against them. At least leave it up to actual investigators to make a decision if a crime was committed or not and not some third party with motive to sweep it under the rug. You might as well be telling a victim to send their case to /dev/null. We have all of these awful systems as band-aids on the real problem - that of police being completely non-functional in their current state.
        porkbeer 4y ago
        Nothing works if you don't try. At least then there would be formal documentation from an independent party.
    - bumby 4y ago
      I made another comment about this elsewhere, but this fact is interesting in the context where Jonathan Haidt’s perspective on the changes on college campuses. His idea is that it’s an outgrowth of an overly concerned culture of safety that trains kids to think of themselves as fragile. An extension of this is that they expect relatively small differences to be mediated by third parties rather than learning to resolve it themselves. It should go without saying that this is a superficial connection on my part without knowing all the details of the encounter.
      - psychlops 4y ago
        That is certainly part of it. Consider another angle...once a structure like that comes into existence, people will weaponize it. Any slight can be reported to campus authorities and the perpetrator gets to deal with months of severely worded paperwork.
dandare 4y ago
> but did not investigate the sexual assault charges against the coffee spillee. Did you make this part up?
- bumby 4y ago
  From the link in the article: "the University reported this allegation to the Title IX Office and the police, but the Title IX Office did not pursue the matter as “the criteria for moving forward with an investigation were not met.”" To be generous, they investigated it and found insufficient evidence. To a cynic, they superficially "investigated" it.
  - prepend 4y ago
    This is a good clarification. To be more accurate, I should have said that they chose to spend significant resources investigating the coffee and did not spend resources investigating the sexual assault. In that the accusation of sexual assault didn’t result in any emails and potential degree withdrawals. Imagine if they had just referred the “assault” accusation to the police. I expect the student would not have killed herself.
    - dandare 4y ago
      > they chose to spend significant resources investigating the coffee and did not spend resources investigating the sexual assault. You made this up again, did you?
      - prepend 4y ago
        This is a curious statement and you’ve made it twice. Did you read the article that describes how the university acted toward one student and not another. Do you think they spent equal or similar resources on the two events? What do you think I’m making up?
        bumby 4y ago

psychlops 4y ago

Where did you read that it was a sexual assault?

colpabar 4y ago
https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/2022/nov/24/katie-meyer-stanford-lawsuit-soccer-death https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/2022/nov/24/katie-meyer-...
- psychlops 4y ago
  Ah, an unwanted kiss. I think, in the real world, spilling some (warmish) coffee on someone is a reasonable retaliation for an unwanted kiss. Once it enters the bureaucracy then they get called assault and require disciplinary action.
  - jonahrd 4y ago
    Where do you read that it's an "unwanted kiss"? Maybe I'm just missing it, but I've looked through this article 3 times and can only see it referred to as a sexual assault.
    - psychlops 4y ago
      In this article: https://www.latimes.com/california/story/2022-11-26/stanford-soccer-player-katie-meyer-wrongful-death-lawsuit https://www.latimes.com/california/story/2022-11-26/stanford... "The university defended its response to the alleged sexual assault on Meyer’s teammate — described as an unwanted kiss — by saying the incident was reported to its Title IX office, which decided against moving forward with an investigation, and local police."
      - chasd00 4y ago
        How does the university have authority to decide to go to the police or not? I'm always confused when people report crimes against them to a church, school, or some other organization and then the organization decides not to engage the police or legal. The victim is just suppose to shrug and say "oh well, i guess i'm just out of luck!". The victim should go straight to the police and report a crime was committed against them. At least leave it up to actual investigators to make a decision if a crime was committed or not and not some third party with motive to sweep it under the rug.
        alexb_ 4y ago
        >The victim should go straight to the police and report a crime was committed against them. At least leave it up to actual investigators to make a decision if a crime was committed or not and not some third party with motive to sweep it under the rug. You might as well be telling a victim to send their case to /dev/null. We have all of these awful systems as band-aids on the real problem - that of police being completely non-functional in their current state.
        porkbeer 4y ago
        Nothing works if you don't try. At least then there would be formal documentation from an independent party.
  - bumby 4y ago
    I made another comment about this elsewhere, but this fact is interesting in the context where Jonathan Haidt’s perspective on the changes on college campuses. His idea is that it’s an outgrowth of an overly concerned culture of safety that trains kids to think of themselves as fragile. An extension of this is that they expect relatively small differences to be mediated by third parties rather than learning to resolve it themselves. It should go without saying that this is a superficial connection on my part without knowing all the details of the encounter.
    - psychlops 4y ago
      That is certainly part of it. Consider another angle...once a structure like that comes into existence, people will weaponize it. Any slight can be reported to campus authorities and the perpetrator gets to deal with months of severely worded paperwork.

dandare 4y ago

> but did not investigate the sexual assault charges against the coffee spillee. Did you make this part up?

bumby 4y ago
From the link in the article: "the University reported this allegation to the Title IX Office and the police, but the Title IX Office did not pursue the matter as “the criteria for moving forward with an investigation were not met.”" To be generous, they investigated it and found insufficient evidence. To a cynic, they superficially "investigated" it.
- prepend 4y ago
  This is a good clarification. To be more accurate, I should have said that they chose to spend significant resources investigating the coffee and did not spend resources investigating the sexual assault. In that the accusation of sexual assault didn’t result in any emails and potential degree withdrawals. Imagine if they had just referred the “assault” accusation to the police. I expect the student would not have killed herself.
  - dandare 4y ago
    > they chose to spend significant resources investigating the coffee and did not spend resources investigating the sexual assault. You made this up again, did you?
    - prepend 4y ago
      This is a curious statement and you’ve made it twice. Did you read the article that describes how the university acted toward one student and not another. Do you think they spent equal or similar resources on the two events? What do you think I’m making up?
      - bumby 4y ago