4 ms·

Well, the anti-drinking populace are telling him not to drink. And it's good advice, considering that if he's rowdy he has probably exceeded the government reco

Well, the anti-drinking populace are telling him not to drink. And it's good advice, considering that if he's rowdy he has probably exceeded the government recommended maximum consumption level. He can never satisfy everybody anyway, so what is the problem here? I don't think the youth have problems with people not liking them drinking.

mekoka 15y ago
If I understood this article as I think I did, your line of reasoning is exactly what the author highlights as the center of a cultural misunderstandings regarding the effects of alcohol. The kid's rowdiness isn't so much a consequence of his drinking than it is a social conditioning that taught him it's ok to be rowdy when you're drunk, it's expected and it's understood. Under different circumstances (in another culture), he would drink exactly the same, but would act completely differently. I think the main point he's trying to convey is that, rather than focusing on attacking alcohol on all fronts, some effort could be put forth in culturally redefining our belief of what people are supposed to act like when they drink (see the passage on first generation Italian immigrants).
- mafro 15y ago
  "it's ok to be rowdy when you're drunk, it's expected and it's understood" And here you've nailed the point that the OP of the first alcohol related post on HN completely missed. His repeated assertion of "drinking to get buzzed/drunk" was what riled everyone up so much - people I drink with are perfectly capable of drinking 5-6 pints of 5% beer without losing their ability to talk sensibly and act sensibly. (That's completely aside from the health considerations of regular consumption). We don't drink specifically to get "buzzed/drunk". That's just a small bonus. Beer in the UK is worth drinking for its own sake! (The beer here in Australia, less so).
  - ido 15y ago
    We don't drink specifically to get "buzzed/drunk". That's just a small bonus. Beer in the UK is worth drinking for its own sake! That's funny of you to say, as Britons (at least in continental europe) are renown for being violent drunks (i.e. violent when drunk, not that they are all drunk & violent).
    - kstenerud 15y ago
      I've never actually seen any rowdy drunks in the many pubs I visited in the UK, despite the many people there drinking heavily. But then again, I never went to the rowdy pubs.
      - SoftwareMaven 15y ago
        I remember being told not to wander around downtown Nottingham around 11pm (when the pubs let out) after football matches because of that rowdiness. I also think it points to the cultural nature because I never had that concern in the other parts of the UK I've visited (I spent about six months over 2.5 years in the UK, well over half of that in Nottingham).
      - ido 15y ago
        1. Stereotypes are not always grounded in reality. 2. I suspect in this case they are probably based on british tourists in Prague/Berlin/Vienna/Budapest getting wasted out of their minds rather than britons drinking at home.
        NickPollard 15y ago
        As a Briton, I can confirm that there definitely is a significant portion of Britons that do tend to binge drink to the point of becoming violent. However, whilst significant, it's still a small portion - most Britons do not, and generally if you go into a pub, even late on a Friday or Saturday, it's full of drunk but friendly and good-natured people just relaxing and enjoying themselves. I think, in my experience, what I've seen definitely seems to support the cultural argument. One point my friends have raised is that at Football (Soccer) matches, alcohol is generally banned because of how rowdy people get, whilst at Rugby matches beer is freely served and yet it remains good-natured.
        DanBC 15y ago
        > and generally if you go into a pub, Very much depends on the pub though. VDEs (Vertical Drinking Establishments) rely on giving the customer little else to do but drink. They don't have seating or tables, which reduces the relaxed drinking that a group would have around a table; and they play loud music which reduces talking time. That environment sounds like hell to me, but they're very popular.

mekoka 15y ago

If I understood this article as I think I did, your line of reasoning is exactly what the author highlights as the center of a cultural misunderstandings regarding the effects of alcohol. The kid's rowdiness isn't so much a consequence of his drinking than it is a social conditioning that taught him it's ok to be rowdy when you're drunk, it's expected and it's understood. Under different circumstances (in another culture), he would drink exactly the same, but would act completely differently. I think the main point he's trying to convey is that, rather than focusing on attacking alcohol on all fronts, some effort could be put forth in culturally redefining our belief of what people are supposed to act like when they drink (see the passage on first generation Italian immigrants).

mafro 15y ago
"it's ok to be rowdy when you're drunk, it's expected and it's understood" And here you've nailed the point that the OP of the first alcohol related post on HN completely missed. His repeated assertion of "drinking to get buzzed/drunk" was what riled everyone up so much - people I drink with are perfectly capable of drinking 5-6 pints of 5% beer without losing their ability to talk sensibly and act sensibly. (That's completely aside from the health considerations of regular consumption). We don't drink specifically to get "buzzed/drunk". That's just a small bonus. Beer in the UK is worth drinking for its own sake! (The beer here in Australia, less so).
- ido 15y ago
  We don't drink specifically to get "buzzed/drunk". That's just a small bonus. Beer in the UK is worth drinking for its own sake! That's funny of you to say, as Britons (at least in continental europe) are renown for being violent drunks (i.e. violent when drunk, not that they are all drunk & violent).
  - kstenerud 15y ago
    I've never actually seen any rowdy drunks in the many pubs I visited in the UK, despite the many people there drinking heavily. But then again, I never went to the rowdy pubs.
    - SoftwareMaven 15y ago
      I remember being told not to wander around downtown Nottingham around 11pm (when the pubs let out) after football matches because of that rowdiness. I also think it points to the cultural nature because I never had that concern in the other parts of the UK I've visited (I spent about six months over 2.5 years in the UK, well over half of that in Nottingham).
    - ido 15y ago
      1. Stereotypes are not always grounded in reality. 2. I suspect in this case they are probably based on british tourists in Prague/Berlin/Vienna/Budapest getting wasted out of their minds rather than britons drinking at home.
      - NickPollard 15y ago
        As a Briton, I can confirm that there definitely is a significant portion of Britons that do tend to binge drink to the point of becoming violent. However, whilst significant, it's still a small portion - most Britons do not, and generally if you go into a pub, even late on a Friday or Saturday, it's full of drunk but friendly and good-natured people just relaxing and enjoying themselves. I think, in my experience, what I've seen definitely seems to support the cultural argument. One point my friends have raised is that at Football (Soccer) matches, alcohol is generally banned because of how rowdy people get, whilst at Rugby matches beer is freely served and yet it remains good-natured.
        DanBC 15y ago
        > and generally if you go into a pub, Very much depends on the pub though. VDEs (Vertical Drinking Establishments) rely on giving the customer little else to do but drink. They don't have seating or tables, which reduces the relaxed drinking that a group would have around a table; and they play loud music which reduces talking time. That environment sounds like hell to me, but they're very popular.