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> Giving people clean drugs actually hooked more people [citation needed] > and not arresting people for "victimless crimes" led to more "victimless" deaths.

> Giving people clean drugs actually hooked more people [citation needed] > and not arresting people for "victimless crimes" led to more "victimless" deaths. But what is the proposal? Arresting people and incarcerating them for petty crimes? The US already has the most incarcerated population in the history of the world > I think mandating that they go to rehab is better than giving them the choice to stay in the street. Maybe. But if you don't address the reason why someone started doing drugs, when you get them off drugs, they still have all the incentives to start again (poverty, despair, etc) I think for people with otherwise SOME social net, we do this. But you can't mandate a homeless person with mental health issue "go" to rehab, you can only lock them up. And in that environment, you need to be treating their mental health, after you treat their drug addiction. This is what western european countries do. But they also address poverty.

LawTalkingGuy 4y ago
> But what is the proposal? Arresting people and incarcerating them for petty crimes? What's an honest counter-proposal? "Allowing" minor crimes, or requiring people to simply let thieves take some of their things? So, of course, yes. Arrest people for any crime that hurts other people, because the other option is that those others suffer or they need to defend themselves. Both of which are unfair and unproductive. > you can't mandate a homeless person with mental health issue "go" to rehab, you can only lock them up We aren't talking homeless, they're already easily helped. We're talking the incurably anti-social and dangerous. People who routinely hurt their neighbors or damage their spaces and things. And yeah, you totally can mandate rehab - you lock people up and require rehab to leave. We already have to lock them up anyways so if they choose not to benefit from or are actually incapable of participating in rehab then yeah you just leave them perpetually locked up in the lightest containment possible. It's generally easier and better, for them and us, than some "free to die on the streets" nonsense anyways. And rehab is only much of the issue - many people are simply "ill" and are never going to get fully well. They don't need punishment, and have no substances to kick, but they still need fair and firm containment.
causi 4y ago
Arresting people and incarcerating them for petty crimes? The result of not arresting someone for breaking into a car is not someone getting their car broken into, but an entire population who believes they are not safe.

LawTalkingGuy 4y ago

> But what is the proposal? Arresting people and incarcerating them for petty crimes? What's an honest counter-proposal? "Allowing" minor crimes, or requiring people to simply let thieves take some of their things? So, of course, yes. Arrest people for any crime that hurts other people, because the other option is that those others suffer or they need to defend themselves. Both of which are unfair and unproductive. > you can't mandate a homeless person with mental health issue "go" to rehab, you can only lock them up We aren't talking homeless, they're already easily helped. We're talking the incurably anti-social and dangerous. People who routinely hurt their neighbors or damage their spaces and things. And yeah, you totally can mandate rehab - you lock people up and require rehab to leave. We already have to lock them up anyways so if they choose not to benefit from or are actually incapable of participating in rehab then yeah you just leave them perpetually locked up in the lightest containment possible. It's generally easier and better, for them and us, than some "free to die on the streets" nonsense anyways. And rehab is only much of the issue - many people are simply "ill" and are never going to get fully well. They don't need punishment, and have no substances to kick, but they still need fair and firm containment.

causi 4y ago

Arresting people and incarcerating them for petty crimes? The result of not arresting someone for breaking into a car is not someone getting their car broken into, but an entire population who believes they are not safe.