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Competition implies some sort of zero sum game which has nothing to do with it. Tesla's factories are all running full throttle and they're building more. The

Competition implies some sort of zero sum game which has nothing to do with it. Tesla's factories are all running full throttle and they're building more. The market as whole is getting larger. Not only is that great, but it's also exactly Tesla's mission statement - Accelerating the World's Transition to Sustainable Energy. Tesla is helping the competition even more by starting to open up their reliable charger network.

tedk-42 4y ago
> Competition has nothing to do with it. Tesla's factories are all running full throttle and they're building more. Pretty much this. Sad clickbait title which draws on a statistical fact that is insignificant.
- Eji1700 4y ago
  This is literally the definition of losing market share. Be it because you have fewer customers or because more customers are in the market but buying other options, your share of the market is now smaller. It doesn’t always mean you’re losing revenue but it is a sign that you’re losing an advantage
  - tedk-42 4y ago
    "72 percent in January-February of 2022 to 58 percent in the same time this year" -> At this rate they'll have 0 market share in under 5 years time! You claim market share is significant. I'm saying it's not. If Tesla had 100% market share, they wouldn't be able to produce the cars for people. It's a silly metric in that it doesn't accommodate for what a manufacturer is capable of. Their market share being smaller is thus, not important as the parent commenter pointed out their factories are pumping out cars full throttle and there's still wait lists for their products. When the market is saturated with products, a metric like market share, customer happiness/retention, brand loyalty etc become more important. For now it's not as they were literally the only significant player for the past 5 years mass producing EVs.
MrFoof 4y ago
This is pretty much it. Tesla's share isn't increasing, but it's roughly maintaining the size of its slice in a larger pie.
misssocrates 4y ago
Why did they frame it the way they did? It's strange how they made it sound like a bad thing.
- johannes1234321 4y ago
  For Tesla it can be a bad thing as for one the association "Electric Car, then it's Tesla" breaks and for second other manufactures can play their experience in building and supporting cars while benefiting more from economy of scale in the EV market.
wwweston 4y ago
Tesla's market cap implies that kind of zero sum game -- it's only justified by the idea that they're going to own a bigger portion of the automobile market than Toyota at some point, or that they'll move into providing some kind of tech that's worth 3x Toyota's value. https://companiesmarketcap.com/automakers/largest-automakers-by-market-cap/ https://companiesmarketcap.com/automakers/largest-automakers...
- BbzzbB 4y ago
  Anyone who says that hasn't paid attention to the industry that spawned the most highly valued company for a while now. Apple captures like 20% of devices and 80% of the industry's profit. Not saying that's gonna happen with Tesla, I'm not making that bet, but who's to say how it will turn out they could drive outsized margin from their peers with some mix of brand (not that Elon's been helping lately), differentiators and software add-on. In an industry where revenues are very high and margins very competitive (low), each percent of margin gained is really meaningful.
- bottlepalm 4y ago
  Tesla has a PE of 50 which is very reasonable for a growth stock https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/History_of_Tesla,_Inc.#Timeline_of_production_and_sales https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/History_of_Tesla,_Inc.#Timelin... (growth)
- TrapLord_Rhodo 4y ago
  Energy storage and energy demand arbitrage, brine mining, robots, Tesla only tunnels. That's what people are betting on. Not just that Tesla will beat Toyota in electric cars.
- fallingknife 4y ago
  You shouldn't be comparing by market cap, but instead enterprise value because TM has massive amounts of debt. In that case TSLA is 1.7x Toyota. Also, it doesn't matter what portion of the market you have. It matters how much profit you make and TSLA has the highest margins on EVs of any company. The Iphone is massively outsold by Android, but who makes more money? In this case I would say 1.7x Toyota is very fair, as Toyota is way behind EVs and is likely to get absolutely smoked by TSLA and VW in the EV transition.

tedk-42 4y ago

> Competition has nothing to do with it. Tesla's factories are all running full throttle and they're building more. Pretty much this. Sad clickbait title which draws on a statistical fact that is insignificant.

Eji1700 4y ago
This is literally the definition of losing market share. Be it because you have fewer customers or because more customers are in the market but buying other options, your share of the market is now smaller. It doesn’t always mean you’re losing revenue but it is a sign that you’re losing an advantage
- tedk-42 4y ago
  "72 percent in January-February of 2022 to 58 percent in the same time this year" -> At this rate they'll have 0 market share in under 5 years time! You claim market share is significant. I'm saying it's not. If Tesla had 100% market share, they wouldn't be able to produce the cars for people. It's a silly metric in that it doesn't accommodate for what a manufacturer is capable of. Their market share being smaller is thus, not important as the parent commenter pointed out their factories are pumping out cars full throttle and there's still wait lists for their products. When the market is saturated with products, a metric like market share, customer happiness/retention, brand loyalty etc become more important. For now it's not as they were literally the only significant player for the past 5 years mass producing EVs.

MrFoof 4y ago

This is pretty much it. Tesla's share isn't increasing, but it's roughly maintaining the size of its slice in a larger pie.

misssocrates 4y ago

Why did they frame it the way they did? It's strange how they made it sound like a bad thing.

johannes1234321 4y ago
For Tesla it can be a bad thing as for one the association "Electric Car, then it's Tesla" breaks and for second other manufactures can play their experience in building and supporting cars while benefiting more from economy of scale in the EV market.

wwweston 4y ago

Tesla's market cap implies that kind of zero sum game -- it's only justified by the idea that they're going to own a bigger portion of the automobile market than Toyota at some point, or that they'll move into providing some kind of tech that's worth 3x Toyota's value. https://companiesmarketcap.com/automakers/largest-automakers-by-market-cap/ https://companiesmarketcap.com/automakers/largest-automakers...

BbzzbB 4y ago
Anyone who says that hasn't paid attention to the industry that spawned the most highly valued company for a while now. Apple captures like 20% of devices and 80% of the industry's profit. Not saying that's gonna happen with Tesla, I'm not making that bet, but who's to say how it will turn out they could drive outsized margin from their peers with some mix of brand (not that Elon's been helping lately), differentiators and software add-on. In an industry where revenues are very high and margins very competitive (low), each percent of margin gained is really meaningful.
bottlepalm 4y ago
Tesla has a PE of 50 which is very reasonable for a growth stock https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/History_of_Tesla,_Inc.#Timeline_of_production_and_sales https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/History_of_Tesla,_Inc.#Timelin... (growth)
TrapLord_Rhodo 4y ago
Energy storage and energy demand arbitrage, brine mining, robots, Tesla only tunnels. That's what people are betting on. Not just that Tesla will beat Toyota in electric cars.
fallingknife 4y ago
You shouldn't be comparing by market cap, but instead enterprise value because TM has massive amounts of debt. In that case TSLA is 1.7x Toyota. Also, it doesn't matter what portion of the market you have. It matters how much profit you make and TSLA has the highest margins on EVs of any company. The Iphone is massively outsold by Android, but who makes more money? In this case I would say 1.7x Toyota is very fair, as Toyota is way behind EVs and is likely to get absolutely smoked by TSLA and VW in the EV transition.