4 ms·

What about the case where new, largely untested therapies are being pushed on the public before they have even been around long enough for peer reviewed data on

What about the case where new, largely untested therapies are being pushed on the public before they have even been around long enough for peer reviewed data on their long-term effects to become available, and the only peer-reviewed data on their short-term effects comes from trials run by the manufacturers themselves?

spondylosaurus 4y ago
By "untested therapies," are you referring to a medical technology that's existed for several hundred years?
- VagueMag 4y ago
  I had in mind PEG-coated-mRNA and adenovirus vaccines which cause the body's own cells to express a close analog to the SARS-CoV-2 spike protein antigen, a thoroughly novel approach which was rolled out to the general public roughly nine months after the very first tests were administered in humans, and in the case of mRNA vaccines more broadly, was described in articles as late as 2017 as potentially having problems with toxicity especially in repeat dosing.
  - op00to 4y ago
    You’re basically saying that we should not trust the internal combustion engine because Ford released a new model car.
    - VagueMag 4y ago
      A horrendously uninformed comparison. It's extremely tedious to still be reading this Pfizer/FDA copypasta at this point. It's more like if Ford wanted to release a car with some kind of completely new engine or propulsion type while having done almost no safety testing at all. And if, at the same time, they were telling you, "this is just like every other car we've ever made, what's the big deal?" it would be as good of a hint that they were hiding something as it turned out to be in the case of the mRNA vaccines. Even in the case of traditional vaccines, it was generally expected pre-Covid that years of testing would be undergone before a rollout to the general public, so even putting aside the question of novelty, the more apt comparison would still be something like "Ford pushes out a new model car with a significant body redesign while doing a bare fraction of the usual crash safety tests."
      - op00to 4y ago
        We've been testing mRNA technology since the 90s, and mRNA vaccines since 2005. Hardly a "completely new [...] propulsion type". It's telling all you can do is attack me personally.
        VagueMag 4y ago
        Yep, in an extremely small handful of test subjects, and they were having huge problems with safety signals pretty much that whole time. The mRNA vaccines are an abject failure, every jurisdiction which made heavy use of them has seen higher levels of excess deaths persist for far longer than would be expected after a pandemic runs its course.

spondylosaurus 4y ago

By "untested therapies," are you referring to a medical technology that's existed for several hundred years?

VagueMag 4y ago
I had in mind PEG-coated-mRNA and adenovirus vaccines which cause the body's own cells to express a close analog to the SARS-CoV-2 spike protein antigen, a thoroughly novel approach which was rolled out to the general public roughly nine months after the very first tests were administered in humans, and in the case of mRNA vaccines more broadly, was described in articles as late as 2017 as potentially having problems with toxicity especially in repeat dosing.
- op00to 4y ago
  You’re basically saying that we should not trust the internal combustion engine because Ford released a new model car.
  - VagueMag 4y ago
    A horrendously uninformed comparison. It's extremely tedious to still be reading this Pfizer/FDA copypasta at this point. It's more like if Ford wanted to release a car with some kind of completely new engine or propulsion type while having done almost no safety testing at all. And if, at the same time, they were telling you, "this is just like every other car we've ever made, what's the big deal?" it would be as good of a hint that they were hiding something as it turned out to be in the case of the mRNA vaccines. Even in the case of traditional vaccines, it was generally expected pre-Covid that years of testing would be undergone before a rollout to the general public, so even putting aside the question of novelty, the more apt comparison would still be something like "Ford pushes out a new model car with a significant body redesign while doing a bare fraction of the usual crash safety tests."
    - op00to 4y ago
      We've been testing mRNA technology since the 90s, and mRNA vaccines since 2005. Hardly a "completely new [...] propulsion type". It's telling all you can do is attack me personally.
      - VagueMag 4y ago
        Yep, in an extremely small handful of test subjects, and they were having huge problems with safety signals pretty much that whole time. The mRNA vaccines are an abject failure, every jurisdiction which made heavy use of them has seen higher levels of excess deaths persist for far longer than would be expected after a pandemic runs its course.