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> but possible. You go from Monero to cash, wire transfer, or gift cards through a variety of unlicensed conversion services that advertise themselves all over

> but possible. You go from Monero to cash, wire transfer, or gift cards through a variety of unlicensed conversion services that advertise themselves all over the Internet. Those are probably run by the FBI. It seems like a no brained for the government to try to run such services given the wealth of information they would provide.

from 4y ago
Having unexplained assets is not a crime and won't be at least in the US because of the constitution, worst case they could be subject to civil forfeiture. Assuming you did everything else right (full disk encryption, Tor on public wifi/LTE router that you alternate routinely, not using Google, etc) the anonymity of Monero means the government would have a very difficult time tying whatever you bought with the Monero to your actual criminal activity. Of course if you are involved in meatspace crime like drugs then maybe if you use these services they put you under surveillance and eventually find you with drugs in the trunk of your car.
- deleted 4y ago
  [deleted]
- dsr_ 4y ago
  Parallel construction: if you do enough crime-adjacent things, the likelihood that you are also engaged in crime makes you interesting to law enforcement.
  - celticninja 4y ago
    What is crime adjacent that isn't criminal activity?
    - inlined 4y ago
      Large amounts of money being sent through tumblers is definitely suspicious. Or spending more money than reported income.
    - hedora 4y ago
      Apparently, joining a police deputy gang, falsifying evidence trails and murdering civilians is OK, at least in L.A.: https://www.reuters.com/legal/government/la-is-investigating-50-year-old-police-gangs-finally-2022-03-30/ https://www.reuters.com/legal/government/la-is-investigating... I think pocketing any unlockable crypto-wallets you found along the way would cross the line. You could stick them into civil forfeiture and use the resulting cash to upgrade your department-owned car though.
    - from 4y ago
      https://www.justice.gov/criminal-ccips/page/file/1252341/download https://www.justice.gov/criminal-ccips/page/file/1252341/dow...
    - Xorakios 4y ago
      Most famous right now? Breonna Taylor (2020) - Louisville, Kentucky: Police officers entered the wrong apartment using a no-knock warrant, which led to the fatal shooting of Breonna Taylor, an emergency medical technician. Eurie Stamps Sr. (2011) - Framingham, Massachusetts: Police raided the wrong apartment, and during the operation, an officer's gun "accidentally discharged," killing Eurie Stamps Sr., a 68-year-old grandfather. As many have mentioned above, civil forfeiture cases for carrying cash are rare, but devastating to people who are originally from countries/cultures that don't trust banks or police. And of course "swatting" such as https://www.courthousenews.com/texas-woman-sentenced-for-swatting-calls-that-led-to-deadly-police-raid/ https://www.courthousenews.com/texas-woman-sentenced-for-swa...
      - jacquesm 4y ago
        That's not what was meant with 'crime adjacent'.
        vertis 4y ago
        Heh, it's a literal meaning of crime adjacent (presuming that the person in the actual target apartment was actually guilty). I suspect anyone that was an early adopter of crypto is somewhat considered crime adjacent because so much of the early usage was silk road. For a while after MtGox was hacked I used BTC-e (yes, I lost money in MtGox). It was later discovered(alleged?) that the operators of BTC-e were involved in laundering money for the MtGox hack[0]. I guess my very presence in that case would be considered crime adjacent. [0]: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/BTC-e https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/BTC-e
- jquast 4y ago
  So long as you pay capital gains and income taxes, unless you are suggesting tax evasion, which is a crime
  - from 4y ago
    Yes assuming you pay taxes. Which funnily enough Zhong did.
notch898b 4y ago
[dead]

from 4y ago

Having unexplained assets is not a crime and won't be at least in the US because of the constitution, worst case they could be subject to civil forfeiture. Assuming you did everything else right (full disk encryption, Tor on public wifi/LTE router that you alternate routinely, not using Google, etc) the anonymity of Monero means the government would have a very difficult time tying whatever you bought with the Monero to your actual criminal activity. Of course if you are involved in meatspace crime like drugs then maybe if you use these services they put you under surveillance and eventually find you with drugs in the trunk of your car.

deleted 4y ago
[deleted]
dsr_ 4y ago
Parallel construction: if you do enough crime-adjacent things, the likelihood that you are also engaged in crime makes you interesting to law enforcement.
- celticninja 4y ago
  What is crime adjacent that isn't criminal activity?
  - inlined 4y ago
    Large amounts of money being sent through tumblers is definitely suspicious. Or spending more money than reported income.
  - hedora 4y ago
    Apparently, joining a police deputy gang, falsifying evidence trails and murdering civilians is OK, at least in L.A.: https://www.reuters.com/legal/government/la-is-investigating-50-year-old-police-gangs-finally-2022-03-30/ https://www.reuters.com/legal/government/la-is-investigating... I think pocketing any unlockable crypto-wallets you found along the way would cross the line. You could stick them into civil forfeiture and use the resulting cash to upgrade your department-owned car though.
  - from 4y ago
    https://www.justice.gov/criminal-ccips/page/file/1252341/download https://www.justice.gov/criminal-ccips/page/file/1252341/dow...
  - Xorakios 4y ago
    Most famous right now? Breonna Taylor (2020) - Louisville, Kentucky: Police officers entered the wrong apartment using a no-knock warrant, which led to the fatal shooting of Breonna Taylor, an emergency medical technician. Eurie Stamps Sr. (2011) - Framingham, Massachusetts: Police raided the wrong apartment, and during the operation, an officer's gun "accidentally discharged," killing Eurie Stamps Sr., a 68-year-old grandfather. As many have mentioned above, civil forfeiture cases for carrying cash are rare, but devastating to people who are originally from countries/cultures that don't trust banks or police. And of course "swatting" such as https://www.courthousenews.com/texas-woman-sentenced-for-swatting-calls-that-led-to-deadly-police-raid/ https://www.courthousenews.com/texas-woman-sentenced-for-swa...
    - jacquesm 4y ago
      That's not what was meant with 'crime adjacent'.
      - vertis 4y ago
        Heh, it's a literal meaning of crime adjacent (presuming that the person in the actual target apartment was actually guilty). I suspect anyone that was an early adopter of crypto is somewhat considered crime adjacent because so much of the early usage was silk road. For a while after MtGox was hacked I used BTC-e (yes, I lost money in MtGox). It was later discovered(alleged?) that the operators of BTC-e were involved in laundering money for the MtGox hack[0]. I guess my very presence in that case would be considered crime adjacent. [0]: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/BTC-e https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/BTC-e
jquast 4y ago
So long as you pay capital gains and income taxes, unless you are suggesting tax evasion, which is a crime
- from 4y ago
  Yes assuming you pay taxes. Which funnily enough Zhong did.

notch898b 4y ago

[dead]