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This “every single pixel” stuff reminds me of how many people will work at a tube of toothpaste for a minute just to squeeze out one more drop. It’s not really

This “every single pixel” stuff reminds me of how many people will work at a tube of toothpaste for a minute just to squeeze out one more drop. It’s not really about getting more toothpaste, because you could easily just buy more. It’s also not really about getting the most toothpaste for your money, because you’re likely not also focusing on cheap tubes, bulk buys, etc. It’s certainly not about getting the most toothpaste for your time. It’s loss aversion: because you believe you should have this thing, you’re willing to accept a much higher cost to obtain it. Similarly, people doing this “every single pixel” thing aren’t necessarily also getting the biggest screens or the thinnest bezels, it’s about it feeling “wrong” to not use these particular pixels. The problem goes away if you mentally reframe: you don’t have a 16.1″ screen with a piece missing, you have a 15.6″-ish screen, the same size as before the notch, and also a horizontal strip above it that’s only good for sensors, the menu bar, and extended backgrounds.

alin23 4y ago
Author here! I agree, I don’t like the “squeeze every drop” approach either, and I get to meet it daily from people asking for not-so-needed features from my apps. For me it wasn’t about wanting to use every single pixel. I just really prefer the look of a single app filling the screen completely. I don’t know why, it just looks good to my eyes and I seek that instead of the large black top bar look.
TylerE 4y ago
For whatever reason, the oval “notch” on the 14 bothers me a lot less than the actually notch on my prior phone.
dataflow 4y ago
I'm not sure the toothpaste thing is really about loss aversion so much as it's about minimizing effort. Throwing a tube away, opening the box of a new one, unscrewing the new cap, putting it down, and fiddling with the the aluminum or plastic cover on the new tube so you can take it off while your hand is wet is so much more effort than just squeezing the old one a bit more so you can get on with your night and go to sleep.
- robbiep 4y ago
  You described about 9 more steps than it takes me to open a new tube of toothpaste
hiisukun 4y ago
I'm a toothpaste last-bit-squeezer for sure. It's not loss aversion -- it's waste aversion. There's probably lots of reasons why I don't like to see things wasted, including social, or family upbringing, or personality. But I have the same impulses with food, clothes, computers, almost everything. I don't always buy food in bulk to save on cost, or look for the best deals, but whatever I have bought I try my best not to waste. It's irresponsible. Maybe in some ways I feel it's bad for the environment, or sets a bad precedent for how I think people should behave. I don't mind what sort of things you choose to buy or like, but I would prefer you don't waste them. Resources of all kinds are limited, so making the most of what we have is an important principle, at least for me. Sometimes it's silly -- eg. I really should replace those old socks with holes in them, I can definitely afford new ones, but if something can do a bit more before being thrown away or replaced, I'll try and get that much more out of it.
- eyelidlessness 4y ago
  I totally relate to waste aversion but that’s also why I feel like this particular topic seems like it brings out all kinds of weird irrational instincts. There isn’t anything wasted here, just something that affords a little extra for an incomplete set of scenarios. Sometimes it’s a little more screen space for a menu to sit a little bit higher than an equivalent spec screen. Sometimes it’s just blank space with no backlight, and the remaining screen area is the same as if you never had the space to begin with. Maybe you can make better use of that space, but I’d put good odds on it being overall more wasteful to expend those resources (human and everything their efforts demand) than just waiting a few more years until the notch vanishes behind its inevitable under-screen evolution.
  - throwaway290 4y ago
    It's not irrational in case of toothpaste. Leftover toothpaste mean you buy more and encourage more waste in the environment. This stuff adds up.
    - MrJohz 4y ago
      It can be kind of irrational. If toothpaste waste is important to you, there are better ways to avoid it. My local no-packaging store, for example, sells toothpaste tablets, completely without plastic or packaging of any kind (and I'm sure you could buy something similar online in bulk with minimal packaging). The effect on waste production that using the last few drops of every toothpaste tube will be negligible compared to the use of a waste-free or waste-minimising alternative, but I get the impression that a lot of people do the former without trying the latter out of a misplaced sense of utility.
philippejara 4y ago
You have a white menu bar that suddenly just gets cut off by a black square, its distracting and jarring. I can assure you the people that are giving up the entirety of length of this bar to not have the black portion stick out aren't worried about "waste".
- zozbot234 4y ago
  Yes, which is why it makes some sense to use TopNotch (mentioned in sibling comments) which turns the menubar black and "hides" the notch completely. Then the menu labels and icons are more easily seen as part of a truly separate "new second display". This solution is also well tested in mobile devices with a notch-like screen cutout. In fact, even the latest Apple iPhone Pro models resort to adding a black area ("dynamic island") to hide the front-facing camera cutout.
zamadatix 4y ago
> It’s not really about getting more toothpaste, because you could easily just buy more. If Apple made a larger MacBook I'd buy for sure. They don't of course, and those portable screens are no better (on multiple axes). OTOH I don't care enough to mess with all of this dancing around SIP. Mostly I'd be happy if apps with tabs (e.g. Chrome or iTerm2) had a better official way to integrate into fullscreen by just avoiding the notch like iPhone apps can do.
satvikpendem 4y ago
> It’s loss aversion For me, it's actually satisfaction, of getting every last part out of it that I could. It's the same satisfaction I get when playing something like Factorio; efficiency.
euroderf 4y ago
Toothpaste etc.: Every time you do it you get better at it, so the marginal cost drops. That's my story and I'm sticking to it.
pleb_nz 4y ago
Regarding the toothpaste analogy. It's also about reducing waste and not causing more consumerism and fully utilizing a product. To not do so because you can't be bothered with effort is terrible. We should avoid waste as much as possible and reduce, reuse and recycle.

alin23 4y ago

Author here! I agree, I don’t like the “squeeze every drop” approach either, and I get to meet it daily from people asking for not-so-needed features from my apps. For me it wasn’t about wanting to use every single pixel. I just really prefer the look of a single app filling the screen completely. I don’t know why, it just looks good to my eyes and I seek that instead of the large black top bar look.

TylerE 4y ago

For whatever reason, the oval “notch” on the 14 bothers me a lot less than the actually notch on my prior phone.

dataflow 4y ago

I'm not sure the toothpaste thing is really about loss aversion so much as it's about minimizing effort. Throwing a tube away, opening the box of a new one, unscrewing the new cap, putting it down, and fiddling with the the aluminum or plastic cover on the new tube so you can take it off while your hand is wet is so much more effort than just squeezing the old one a bit more so you can get on with your night and go to sleep.

robbiep 4y ago
You described about 9 more steps than it takes me to open a new tube of toothpaste

hiisukun 4y ago

I'm a toothpaste last-bit-squeezer for sure. It's not loss aversion -- it's waste aversion. There's probably lots of reasons why I don't like to see things wasted, including social, or family upbringing, or personality. But I have the same impulses with food, clothes, computers, almost everything. I don't always buy food in bulk to save on cost, or look for the best deals, but whatever I have bought I try my best not to waste. It's irresponsible. Maybe in some ways I feel it's bad for the environment, or sets a bad precedent for how I think people should behave. I don't mind what sort of things you choose to buy or like, but I would prefer you don't waste them. Resources of all kinds are limited, so making the most of what we have is an important principle, at least for me. Sometimes it's silly -- eg. I really should replace those old socks with holes in them, I can definitely afford new ones, but if something can do a bit more before being thrown away or replaced, I'll try and get that much more out of it.

eyelidlessness 4y ago
I totally relate to waste aversion but that’s also why I feel like this particular topic seems like it brings out all kinds of weird irrational instincts. There isn’t anything wasted here, just something that affords a little extra for an incomplete set of scenarios. Sometimes it’s a little more screen space for a menu to sit a little bit higher than an equivalent spec screen. Sometimes it’s just blank space with no backlight, and the remaining screen area is the same as if you never had the space to begin with. Maybe you can make better use of that space, but I’d put good odds on it being overall more wasteful to expend those resources (human and everything their efforts demand) than just waiting a few more years until the notch vanishes behind its inevitable under-screen evolution.
- throwaway290 4y ago
  It's not irrational in case of toothpaste. Leftover toothpaste mean you buy more and encourage more waste in the environment. This stuff adds up.
  - MrJohz 4y ago
    It can be kind of irrational. If toothpaste waste is important to you, there are better ways to avoid it. My local no-packaging store, for example, sells toothpaste tablets, completely without plastic or packaging of any kind (and I'm sure you could buy something similar online in bulk with minimal packaging). The effect on waste production that using the last few drops of every toothpaste tube will be negligible compared to the use of a waste-free or waste-minimising alternative, but I get the impression that a lot of people do the former without trying the latter out of a misplaced sense of utility.

philippejara 4y ago

You have a white menu bar that suddenly just gets cut off by a black square, its distracting and jarring. I can assure you the people that are giving up the entirety of length of this bar to not have the black portion stick out aren't worried about "waste".

zozbot234 4y ago
Yes, which is why it makes some sense to use TopNotch (mentioned in sibling comments) which turns the menubar black and "hides" the notch completely. Then the menu labels and icons are more easily seen as part of a truly separate "new second display". This solution is also well tested in mobile devices with a notch-like screen cutout. In fact, even the latest Apple iPhone Pro models resort to adding a black area ("dynamic island") to hide the front-facing camera cutout.

zamadatix 4y ago

> It’s not really about getting more toothpaste, because you could easily just buy more. If Apple made a larger MacBook I'd buy for sure. They don't of course, and those portable screens are no better (on multiple axes). OTOH I don't care enough to mess with all of this dancing around SIP. Mostly I'd be happy if apps with tabs (e.g. Chrome or iTerm2) had a better official way to integrate into fullscreen by just avoiding the notch like iPhone apps can do.

satvikpendem 4y ago

> It’s loss aversion For me, it's actually satisfaction, of getting every last part out of it that I could. It's the same satisfaction I get when playing something like Factorio; efficiency.

euroderf 4y ago

Toothpaste etc.: Every time you do it you get better at it, so the marginal cost drops. That's my story and I'm sticking to it.

pleb_nz 4y ago

Regarding the toothpaste analogy. It's also about reducing waste and not causing more consumerism and fully utilizing a product. To not do so because you can't be bothered with effort is terrible. We should avoid waste as much as possible and reduce, reuse and recycle.