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> The A.C.L.U.’s Speech, Privacy, and Technology project sent me a statement that said the Utah bill and many like it around the country would “restrict the abi

> The A.C.L.U.’s Speech, Privacy, and Technology project sent me a statement that said the Utah bill and many like it around the country would “restrict the ability of teenagers to explore and make up their own minds about everything..." Does the ACLU realize they are walking right into a trap? Is their position really going to be that parents don't have the right to parent their kids? This is not a position you will ever convince mom's to agree to. And I think we all know who has been swinging elections lately. There has been a very strange desire by some to get direct access to kids and to influence them without parental approval or supervision. And here the ACLU is putting into broad daylight this idea that kids have complete agency. They do not. For the entire history of parenting, parents have tried to control what their kids are exposed to and most importantly, who they are exposed to. You know, the whole "bad influences" thing? And although I personally believe overprotecting kids is ultimately bad for them and that reality is something they need to understand, I respect that other parents may have different limits.

bangkoksbest 4y ago
The ACLU is a legal organization about civil liberties. It is not a political campaign trying to convince moms to vote for them.
- nemo44x 4y ago
  Right, but they are very adjacent to and influential to these campaigns.
- JasserInicide 4y ago
  The ACLU has been a borderline joke for a while now. They've long lost their ways from the Ira Glasser days and are just another organization that succumbed to political polarization.
gjsman-1000 4y ago
> And although I personally believe overprotecting kids is ultimately bad for them and that reality is something they need to understand, I respect that other parents may have different limits. This is also a more bipartisan issue on the ground than we'd like to admit. Both conservative parents and many "radical feminists", for example, both agree pornography should not be used as a tool for teaching oneself about sex. But if you take the ACLU literally here (because of how broad their position is), they think that's just a necessary evil. I think it is not unreasonable as a parent to strongly, strongly disagree with that idea.
- whitexn--g28h 4y ago
  Why do parents feel the government needs to restrict everyone to solve parenting issues. Does the drinking age eliminate under age drinking?
  - tick_tock_tick 4y ago
    > Does the drinking age eliminate under age drinking? No, but it massively reduced it.
ok_dad 4y ago
> Is their position really going to be that parents don't have the right to parent their kids? Parents can parent all they want without this law. I am a parent, and this law would not help me in my parenting of my kids online. In fact, I would prefer my kids be able to sign up for accounts without having to share any private information about themselves, including their age. > There has been a very strange desire by some to get direct access to kids and to influence them without parental approval or supervision. You're veering off into "pizza basement" levels of conspiracy here.
- shortcake27 4y ago
  I don’t understand why this was downvoted. Forcing kids to share more PII with social media companies is extremely dangerous. I’m surprised that people on HN are in support of this.
  - deleted 4y ago
    [deleted]
lumb63 4y ago
> There has been a very strange desire by some to get direct access to kids and to influence them without parental approval or supervision. I’ve noticed this as well. One recent instance is opposition to the proposed Parents Bill of Rights Act in the US, which would require elementary schools to obtain parental consent before a minor child’s gender pronouns or preferred name is changed. That seems like a pretty reasonable rule to me.
- johnny22 4y ago
  so i'd have to ask my parents to have my teacher call me Johnny instead of John? that doesn't sound great to me.
- yamtaddle 4y ago
  By all means, give teachers even more eggshells to carefully walk on, with consequences for screwing it up (if no consequences, what's the point of having the law at all?) while they're seeing inflation-adjusted pay fall fast, benefits (healthcare especially) not-so-gradually eroding, and we already have alarmingly-low enrollment in education programs. Go ahead and speed up the collapse of public education that's already in progress. Rather than, you know, letting them just behave like human beings possessing judgement and at least a little common-sense, which I'd bet has been working out entirely fine in damn near all cases, as far as it relates to this topic. If you want to find an example or five of somethings stupid or bad happening in a country of 330+ million, you can, but is this an actual widespread problem worth legislating, that individual schools and districts aren't manage to handle just fine on their own, overall? I doubt it.
- bee_rider 4y ago
  So what, require everybody to get their parents to come in and state their gender in kindergarten? Seems annoying. Or just default to they/them? Possible I guess but awkward. Or just let the teachers assign a gender to start? This will be fun! Can they ask the kids first or do they have to pick without consultation?
comrh 4y ago
> Is their position really going to be that parents don't have the right to parent their kids? I think their position is more children have 1st amendment rights too.
tick_tock_tick 4y ago
The ACLU has become a parody organization with a thin veneer of supporting it's core goals.

bangkoksbest 4y ago

The ACLU is a legal organization about civil liberties. It is not a political campaign trying to convince moms to vote for them.

nemo44x 4y ago
Right, but they are very adjacent to and influential to these campaigns.
JasserInicide 4y ago
The ACLU has been a borderline joke for a while now. They've long lost their ways from the Ira Glasser days and are just another organization that succumbed to political polarization.

gjsman-1000 4y ago

> And although I personally believe overprotecting kids is ultimately bad for them and that reality is something they need to understand, I respect that other parents may have different limits. This is also a more bipartisan issue on the ground than we'd like to admit. Both conservative parents and many "radical feminists", for example, both agree pornography should not be used as a tool for teaching oneself about sex. But if you take the ACLU literally here (because of how broad their position is), they think that's just a necessary evil. I think it is not unreasonable as a parent to strongly, strongly disagree with that idea.

whitexn--g28h 4y ago
Why do parents feel the government needs to restrict everyone to solve parenting issues. Does the drinking age eliminate under age drinking?
- tick_tock_tick 4y ago
  > Does the drinking age eliminate under age drinking? No, but it massively reduced it.

ok_dad 4y ago

> Is their position really going to be that parents don't have the right to parent their kids? Parents can parent all they want without this law. I am a parent, and this law would not help me in my parenting of my kids online. In fact, I would prefer my kids be able to sign up for accounts without having to share any private information about themselves, including their age. > There has been a very strange desire by some to get direct access to kids and to influence them without parental approval or supervision. You're veering off into "pizza basement" levels of conspiracy here.

shortcake27 4y ago
I don’t understand why this was downvoted. Forcing kids to share more PII with social media companies is extremely dangerous. I’m surprised that people on HN are in support of this.
- deleted 4y ago
  [deleted]

lumb63 4y ago

> There has been a very strange desire by some to get direct access to kids and to influence them without parental approval or supervision. I’ve noticed this as well. One recent instance is opposition to the proposed Parents Bill of Rights Act in the US, which would require elementary schools to obtain parental consent before a minor child’s gender pronouns or preferred name is changed. That seems like a pretty reasonable rule to me.

johnny22 4y ago
so i'd have to ask my parents to have my teacher call me Johnny instead of John? that doesn't sound great to me.
yamtaddle 4y ago
By all means, give teachers even more eggshells to carefully walk on, with consequences for screwing it up (if no consequences, what's the point of having the law at all?) while they're seeing inflation-adjusted pay fall fast, benefits (healthcare especially) not-so-gradually eroding, and we already have alarmingly-low enrollment in education programs. Go ahead and speed up the collapse of public education that's already in progress. Rather than, you know, letting them just behave like human beings possessing judgement and at least a little common-sense, which I'd bet has been working out entirely fine in damn near all cases, as far as it relates to this topic. If you want to find an example or five of somethings stupid or bad happening in a country of 330+ million, you can, but is this an actual widespread problem worth legislating, that individual schools and districts aren't manage to handle just fine on their own, overall? I doubt it.
bee_rider 4y ago
So what, require everybody to get their parents to come in and state their gender in kindergarten? Seems annoying. Or just default to they/them? Possible I guess but awkward. Or just let the teachers assign a gender to start? This will be fun! Can they ask the kids first or do they have to pick without consultation?

comrh 4y ago

> Is their position really going to be that parents don't have the right to parent their kids? I think their position is more children have 1st amendment rights too.

tick_tock_tick 4y ago

The ACLU has become a parody organization with a thin veneer of supporting it's core goals.