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> So I believe we put too many people in jail for too long. I think our justice system is pretty broken. Having said that, to fix it I never thought of just let

> So I believe we put too many people in jail for too long. I think our justice system is pretty broken. Having said that, to fix it I never thought of just letting people commit crimes like areas in California seem to be doing. That's just as asinine but in the other direction. > I never imagined letting people commit crimes with no fear of any repercussions. This is a myth. Police everywhere prioritize violent crimes. Jails and prisons everywhere prioritize retaining violent criminals and when they have to, attempt to release the lowest risk offenders. When people have been prematurely released from jail it is not out of misplaced compassion. Mostly people are being released because the system is already at capacity. In fact many jails in the U.S. are well above capacity before they decide to release people. Some as much as 150% No matter where you are, a lot of violent crime goes un-solved. That has been true for decades. People cover up their crimes and many are reasonably good at it. The rise in crime during and following the pandemic has been significant for small, medium and large cities regardless of the policies adopted by those cities and regardless of the overriding politics of the state they are situated in.

Clubber 4y ago
>> I never imagined letting people commit crimes with no fear of any repercussions. >This is a myth. Police everywhere prioritize violent crimes. I was speaking mainly to petty crimes. I should have been more clear.
- DubiousPusher 4y ago
  How much prison time does a person "deserve" for publicly injecting themselves with a chemical? How many more jails or prisons should we build to hold them? How much prison time do they "deserve" for doing it again? What percentage of the unhoused population should we continuously churn through the system? For the criminal justice system to contain this, I suspect you would have to create a large internment system which would something like double the size of U.S. incarceration. As I see it, the system is not failing for a lack of cruelty. But because there is a sizable population who have nothing left to lose.
  - koolba 4y ago
    > How much prison time does a person "deserve" for publicly injecting themselves with a chemical? Long enough that they stop doing it. > How many more jails or prisons should we build to hold them? When the alternative is people literally filling public sidewalks with feces, as many as we need to hold them. > How much prison time do they "deserve" for doing it again? Exponential back off from society would be nice. > What percentage of the unhoused population should we continuously churn through the system? It’s not being homeless that leads one to defecating on the street. It’s mental issues and drug addiction. The homeless who want to live better lives have plenty of opportunity. It’s the fringe class that wants live on the street, rolling from high to high, that are the problem. > For the criminal justice system to contain this, I suspect you would have to create a large internment system which would something like double the size of U.S. incarceration. Probably something on that order. Likely a bit less as it’s about 10K homeless in SF and 125K total incarcerated in CA. Even stretching it state wide it wouldn’t double. Cost wise it would definitely go up, but it’d be distributed across the entire State rather than just the local crime, quality of life, and property value hit that is experienced by the law abiding people in the affected areas. So that seems like a net win.
    - DubiousPusher 4y ago
      While I deeply disagree with you and I recoil at the idea of a system under which a person might spend literal years in prison for taking a shit where they "shouldn't", I respect your honesty. Usually when I pose these kind of questions people lie about their true expectations because they wish for such harsh measures in secret but rather not be associated with them.
      - 0xB31B1B 4y ago
        maybe not prison but a detention and mental health care facility, but yes generally agreed with the above comment. My wife is a dr at a hospital in SF and treats many chronically homeless patients for various issues. There are about 1-2k chronically homeless folks in SF who need treatment against their will/desires (their desires are either to continue drug use until they die or their desires are unintelligible), and the large majority of them will never recover to a point where they will be in a point where they can live outside of an inpatient mental health hospital/detention facility.

Clubber 4y ago

>> I never imagined letting people commit crimes with no fear of any repercussions. >This is a myth. Police everywhere prioritize violent crimes. I was speaking mainly to petty crimes. I should have been more clear.

DubiousPusher 4y ago
How much prison time does a person "deserve" for publicly injecting themselves with a chemical? How many more jails or prisons should we build to hold them? How much prison time do they "deserve" for doing it again? What percentage of the unhoused population should we continuously churn through the system? For the criminal justice system to contain this, I suspect you would have to create a large internment system which would something like double the size of U.S. incarceration. As I see it, the system is not failing for a lack of cruelty. But because there is a sizable population who have nothing left to lose.
- koolba 4y ago
  > How much prison time does a person "deserve" for publicly injecting themselves with a chemical? Long enough that they stop doing it. > How many more jails or prisons should we build to hold them? When the alternative is people literally filling public sidewalks with feces, as many as we need to hold them. > How much prison time do they "deserve" for doing it again? Exponential back off from society would be nice. > What percentage of the unhoused population should we continuously churn through the system? It’s not being homeless that leads one to defecating on the street. It’s mental issues and drug addiction. The homeless who want to live better lives have plenty of opportunity. It’s the fringe class that wants live on the street, rolling from high to high, that are the problem. > For the criminal justice system to contain this, I suspect you would have to create a large internment system which would something like double the size of U.S. incarceration. Probably something on that order. Likely a bit less as it’s about 10K homeless in SF and 125K total incarcerated in CA. Even stretching it state wide it wouldn’t double. Cost wise it would definitely go up, but it’d be distributed across the entire State rather than just the local crime, quality of life, and property value hit that is experienced by the law abiding people in the affected areas. So that seems like a net win.
  - DubiousPusher 4y ago
    While I deeply disagree with you and I recoil at the idea of a system under which a person might spend literal years in prison for taking a shit where they "shouldn't", I respect your honesty. Usually when I pose these kind of questions people lie about their true expectations because they wish for such harsh measures in secret but rather not be associated with them.
    - 0xB31B1B 4y ago
      maybe not prison but a detention and mental health care facility, but yes generally agreed with the above comment. My wife is a dr at a hospital in SF and treats many chronically homeless patients for various issues. There are about 1-2k chronically homeless folks in SF who need treatment against their will/desires (their desires are either to continue drug use until they die or their desires are unintelligible), and the large majority of them will never recover to a point where they will be in a point where they can live outside of an inpatient mental health hospital/detention facility.