4 ms·

Do they try that in SF? My understanding was that they moved away from this model. And it doesn't have to be jail if they have mental health or whatever issues

Do they try that in SF? My understanding was that they moved away from this model. And it doesn't have to be jail if they have mental health or whatever issues. Just put the people that hurt other people in a place where they can't hurt other people.

giraffe_lady 4y ago
They moved away from it because it doesn't work. It's not working anywhere else either, why would they go back to it? The name doesn't matter call it what you want but when you take a stigmatized group widely considered criminal and a nuisance, not rightly or "correctly" part of society and put them in a place they are not free to leave atrocities are inevitable. And why even them in the first place? Why is the conversation not about jailing a landlord who evicts someone in mental health crisis? They've caused plenty harm.
- gadders 4y ago
  Whatever they're doing or not doing now is clearly worse. Again I'd ask why the problem is worse in SF than other American cities with better climates.
  - giraffe_lady 4y ago
    It's a good question! The climate isn't unique but I think the economic and income dynamics may be. Either way though "this isn't working so let's do the other thing we know also doesn't work" isn't a very rigorous approach. I get the frustration but we know that wouldn't solve it, because it didn't solve it there and hasn't solved it anywhere.
- LawTalkingGuy 4y ago
  > Why is the conversation not about jailing a landlord who evicts someone in mental health crisis? What a commie answer, to blame the person who has actually supplied something because they can't keep providing forever. Why not jail the neighbors, who obviously refused to start a go-fund-me to pay for the apartment? Why not jail facebook employees for not making it mandatory to view said go-fund-me to pay for the apartment? Why not jail the elementary school teacher who took a job in a different town many years ago, thus depriving the poor victim of a different path in life. Why not simply jail anyone with more than the homeless person, to achieve full societal equity?
  - giraffe_lady 4y ago
    I didn't propose jailing anyone, I am an abolitionist. I asked why the conversation, already about jailing someone, is only about jailing that person. The other ones you pose are also reasonable questions with less clear answers but revealing to think about in a way. Except the teacher I just don't get that. Calling me a commie is silly. I am a socialist come on. Y'all act like god revealed capitalism as his chosen economic system in 1991.
    - LawTalkingGuy 4y ago
      > Calling me a commie is silly. I am a socialist come on. :D Honest question though if you're serious, is socialism just a temporary goal on the way to communism or is it a worthwhile final goal on its own? > I didn't propose jailing anyone, I am an abolitionist. More questions. Like, as a libertarian sort of thing, or a anarcho-utopian? In a society that has the concept of property? What would the society do, or expect a citizen to do, when someone was taking their food, or harassing them, etc? > why the conversation, already about jailing someone, is only about jailing that person Because the word tenant implies that they need to pay ongoing rent, and evictions are generally for failing to do so. Jail may be overboard in this situation (?) but applying sanctions to a person unwilling to return your property or leave your rental unit seems required or nobody would rent anything and all potential renters would suffer. There doesn't seem to be any reason to punish the landlord, first because it's morally wrong to punish someone without a 'crime', and second because it wouldn't provide any class benefit to anyone either. > Y'all act like god revealed capitalism as his chosen economic system in 1991. No, we measure from when St Reagan personally tore down the wall in 1987.

giraffe_lady 4y ago

They moved away from it because it doesn't work. It's not working anywhere else either, why would they go back to it? The name doesn't matter call it what you want but when you take a stigmatized group widely considered criminal and a nuisance, not rightly or "correctly" part of society and put them in a place they are not free to leave atrocities are inevitable. And why even them in the first place? Why is the conversation not about jailing a landlord who evicts someone in mental health crisis? They've caused plenty harm.

gadders 4y ago
Whatever they're doing or not doing now is clearly worse. Again I'd ask why the problem is worse in SF than other American cities with better climates.
- giraffe_lady 4y ago
  It's a good question! The climate isn't unique but I think the economic and income dynamics may be. Either way though "this isn't working so let's do the other thing we know also doesn't work" isn't a very rigorous approach. I get the frustration but we know that wouldn't solve it, because it didn't solve it there and hasn't solved it anywhere.
LawTalkingGuy 4y ago
> Why is the conversation not about jailing a landlord who evicts someone in mental health crisis? What a commie answer, to blame the person who has actually supplied something because they can't keep providing forever. Why not jail the neighbors, who obviously refused to start a go-fund-me to pay for the apartment? Why not jail facebook employees for not making it mandatory to view said go-fund-me to pay for the apartment? Why not jail the elementary school teacher who took a job in a different town many years ago, thus depriving the poor victim of a different path in life. Why not simply jail anyone with more than the homeless person, to achieve full societal equity?
- giraffe_lady 4y ago
  I didn't propose jailing anyone, I am an abolitionist. I asked why the conversation, already about jailing someone, is only about jailing that person. The other ones you pose are also reasonable questions with less clear answers but revealing to think about in a way. Except the teacher I just don't get that. Calling me a commie is silly. I am a socialist come on. Y'all act like god revealed capitalism as his chosen economic system in 1991.
  - LawTalkingGuy 4y ago
    > Calling me a commie is silly. I am a socialist come on. :D Honest question though if you're serious, is socialism just a temporary goal on the way to communism or is it a worthwhile final goal on its own? > I didn't propose jailing anyone, I am an abolitionist. More questions. Like, as a libertarian sort of thing, or a anarcho-utopian? In a society that has the concept of property? What would the society do, or expect a citizen to do, when someone was taking their food, or harassing them, etc? > why the conversation, already about jailing someone, is only about jailing that person Because the word tenant implies that they need to pay ongoing rent, and evictions are generally for failing to do so. Jail may be overboard in this situation (?) but applying sanctions to a person unwilling to return your property or leave your rental unit seems required or nobody would rent anything and all potential renters would suffer. There doesn't seem to be any reason to punish the landlord, first because it's morally wrong to punish someone without a 'crime', and second because it wouldn't provide any class benefit to anyone either. > Y'all act like god revealed capitalism as his chosen economic system in 1991. No, we measure from when St Reagan personally tore down the wall in 1987.