5 ms·

I've known people from whom the "have a 3rd kid, or stop at 2?" question probably was tipped over to "stop at 2" by the cost and hassle of having to buy a bigge

I've known people from whom the "have a 3rd kid, or stop at 2?" question probably was tipped over to "stop at 2" by the cost and hassle of having to buy a bigger car to comfortably & safely fit 3 car seats, on top of all the other painfully-high expenses of having a kid. And I've repeatedly heard needing to get a minivan or largish SUV mentioned in conversations about whether to have more than 3 kids, as a downside to going higher. I'd absolutely believe that car-dependence has played some measurable role in suppressing birthrates, by causing step increases in transportation costs at certain counts of kids. 1 or 2 is no problem with almost any car, but 3 means at least a large sedan, and 4-5 means a van or SUV. More than 5 and you're looking at a fullsize van or a minivan with dual bench seats or something.

SECProto 4y ago
One thing I loved living in Japan was availability of minivans that were actually small. The Toyota Sienta (note: not sienna) had 7 seats while being built on the Vitz (Yaris) platform. 3 feet shorter than a north american minivan, a foot narrower, and an engine roughly half the displacement (but still could go highway speeds without issue). I would happily upgrade from a small hatchback to one of those.
- yamtaddle 4y ago
  Yeah, such cars are hard to find in the US and I'd hesitate to buy one, personally, given the ever-increasing size and weight of the average car on the road, mostly from trucks and SUVs. I don't want to pack my family into a car with little crumple-room and low weight, on American highways. Cracking this chicken-egg will require forcing huge-ass vehicle ownership down first, and good luck with that in the US. :-(
- tetromino_ 4y ago
  What's the leg room and seat width in those things? I am wondering whether a three-row Yaris could comfortably fit a modern American man - tall and with borderline-obese BMI - in any of its 7 seats.
  - fomine3 4y ago
    3rd seats on JDM subcompact minivans are small even for Japanese, so like for children or emergency. It's fine for the purpose. https://youtu.be/8KHrR0FKs9Q?t=1223 https://youtu.be/8KHrR0FKs9Q?t=1223 2nd seat leg and head room is great, but possibly the seat size is a bit small for US fat people.
    - SECProto 4y ago
      Yep, that video shows it well! Third row is a little tight, but I'm 6'1" and sat there for a 5 hour drive with my duffel on my lap, haha. I think I had it better than the three larger folks sharing the middle row. So it would fit 4 adults and two kids quite comfortably (and for the discussion at hand, it would fit a family of 6 or 7 just fine, just have to keep luggage down as the back seats take up much of the trunk)
em500 4y ago
Here´s some research and commentary on this: https://papers.ssrn.com/sol3/papers.cfm?abstract_id=3665046 https://papers.ssrn.com/sol3/papers.cfm?abstract_id=3665046 https://www.lesswrong.com/posts/c4daDbQD398BmW5k5/on-car-seats-as-contraception https://www.lesswrong.com/posts/c4daDbQD398BmW5k5/on-car-sea...
rqtwteye 4y ago
"I'd absolutely believe that car-dependence has played some measurable role in suppressing birthrates" That seems pretty far fetched. I bet you could see an effect from the size of laundry machines too.

SECProto 4y ago

One thing I loved living in Japan was availability of minivans that were actually small. The Toyota Sienta (note: not sienna) had 7 seats while being built on the Vitz (Yaris) platform. 3 feet shorter than a north american minivan, a foot narrower, and an engine roughly half the displacement (but still could go highway speeds without issue). I would happily upgrade from a small hatchback to one of those.

yamtaddle 4y ago
Yeah, such cars are hard to find in the US and I'd hesitate to buy one, personally, given the ever-increasing size and weight of the average car on the road, mostly from trucks and SUVs. I don't want to pack my family into a car with little crumple-room and low weight, on American highways. Cracking this chicken-egg will require forcing huge-ass vehicle ownership down first, and good luck with that in the US. :-(
tetromino_ 4y ago
What's the leg room and seat width in those things? I am wondering whether a three-row Yaris could comfortably fit a modern American man - tall and with borderline-obese BMI - in any of its 7 seats.
- fomine3 4y ago
  3rd seats on JDM subcompact minivans are small even for Japanese, so like for children or emergency. It's fine for the purpose. https://youtu.be/8KHrR0FKs9Q?t=1223 https://youtu.be/8KHrR0FKs9Q?t=1223 2nd seat leg and head room is great, but possibly the seat size is a bit small for US fat people.
  - SECProto 4y ago
    Yep, that video shows it well! Third row is a little tight, but I'm 6'1" and sat there for a 5 hour drive with my duffel on my lap, haha. I think I had it better than the three larger folks sharing the middle row. So it would fit 4 adults and two kids quite comfortably (and for the discussion at hand, it would fit a family of 6 or 7 just fine, just have to keep luggage down as the back seats take up much of the trunk)

em500 4y ago

Here´s some research and commentary on this: https://papers.ssrn.com/sol3/papers.cfm?abstract_id=3665046 https://papers.ssrn.com/sol3/papers.cfm?abstract_id=3665046 https://www.lesswrong.com/posts/c4daDbQD398BmW5k5/on-car-seats-as-contraception https://www.lesswrong.com/posts/c4daDbQD398BmW5k5/on-car-sea...

rqtwteye 4y ago

"I'd absolutely believe that car-dependence has played some measurable role in suppressing birthrates" That seems pretty far fetched. I bet you could see an effect from the size of laundry machines too.