5 ms·

Naively that's going to end up disproportionately penalizing EVs[1], which sounds exactly backwards to me. "Weight" is not the correct factor to optimize, basi

by ajross 4y ago

Naively that's going to end up disproportionately penalizing EVs[1], which sounds exactly backwards to me. "Weight" is not the correct factor to optimize, basically. [1] Which are heavy, because they can't source 2/3 of their reaction mass from the atmosphere and have to keep all the reactants in the battery at all time.

troutwine 4y ago
> "Weight" is not the correct factor to optimize, basically. Is it not? Particular matter from tires is a major factor in air pollution and the heavier the vehicle the more that ramps up.
- ajross 4y ago
  Absent numbers, I'm gonna go with "Mass-dependent increase in tire-derived particular air pollution" isn't the right factor to optimize either.
  - calvinmorrison 4y ago
    Its not just tire pollution but road wear
  - troutwine 4y ago
    Alright? It's not clear by implication what you actually do want to optimize for but the weight/particulate problem is a fairly well-known problem. For instance, from the California Air Resources Board: https://ww2.arb.ca.gov/resources/documents/brake-tire-wear-emissions https://ww2.arb.ca.gov/resources/documents/brake-tire-wear-e... It's something the tire industry has been fretting over for a while: https://www.tiretechnologyinternational.com/news/regulations/pollution-from-tire-wear-1000-times-worse-than-exhaust-emissions.html https://www.tiretechnologyinternational.com/news/regulations...
- deleted 4y ago
  [deleted]
quadrifoliate 4y ago
It should incentivize manufacturers to build a lot more Nissan Leafs (111 MPGe) and a lot fewer F-150 Lightnings (68 MPGe).
- ortusdux 4y ago
  I agree. For reference: -Nissan leaf - 3500 to 3900 lbs -Tesla model 3 long range - 4250 lbs (131mpge) -F150 lightning - 6000 to 6900 lbs
hannob 4y ago
For safety, weight is not the only, but a very relevant factor to optimize for.
ambicapter 4y ago
What is the correct factor then?
- ajross 4y ago
  Fuel consumption? Net total particulate emissions? Net involved fatalities (regardless of fault)? It's not like this is hard. Those are the things people care about reducing. At best, vehicle mass is a proxy measurement for those things. But the thing is, you use a proxy measurement when the things you're trying to measure are hard to measure. That stuff is easy! Fundamentally my point is libertarian: If we want to regulate safety, we should regulate safety and not play dumb games with weight rules that then need to be tuned for EVs or whatnot. Fine-tuned rulemaking doesn't work.
bryanmgreen 4y ago
Correct - a "one-size fits all" solution would be foolish! But... This has been accounted for to not penalize EVs disproportionately :) Hopefully battery tech can improve at a steady pace that there are in the near-ish future notable reductions in weight.
zip1234 4y ago
Weight should certainly be part of the calculation. Road wear, momentum at speed, and particulate emissions (including from tires) all increase with weight.

by ajross 4y ago

troutwine 4y ago

> "Weight" is not the correct factor to optimize, basically. Is it not? Particular matter from tires is a major factor in air pollution and the heavier the vehicle the more that ramps up.

ajross 4y ago
Absent numbers, I'm gonna go with "Mass-dependent increase in tire-derived particular air pollution" isn't the right factor to optimize either.
- calvinmorrison 4y ago
  Its not just tire pollution but road wear
- troutwine 4y ago
  Alright? It's not clear by implication what you actually do want to optimize for but the weight/particulate problem is a fairly well-known problem. For instance, from the California Air Resources Board: https://ww2.arb.ca.gov/resources/documents/brake-tire-wear-emissions https://ww2.arb.ca.gov/resources/documents/brake-tire-wear-e... It's something the tire industry has been fretting over for a while: https://www.tiretechnologyinternational.com/news/regulations/pollution-from-tire-wear-1000-times-worse-than-exhaust-emissions.html https://www.tiretechnologyinternational.com/news/regulations...
deleted 4y ago
[deleted]

quadrifoliate 4y ago

It should incentivize manufacturers to build a lot more Nissan Leafs (111 MPGe) and a lot fewer F-150 Lightnings (68 MPGe).

ortusdux 4y ago
I agree. For reference: -Nissan leaf - 3500 to 3900 lbs -Tesla model 3 long range - 4250 lbs (131mpge) -F150 lightning - 6000 to 6900 lbs

hannob 4y ago

For safety, weight is not the only, but a very relevant factor to optimize for.

ambicapter 4y ago

What is the correct factor then?

ajross 4y ago
Fuel consumption? Net total particulate emissions? Net involved fatalities (regardless of fault)? It's not like this is hard. Those are the things people care about reducing. At best, vehicle mass is a proxy measurement for those things. But the thing is, you use a proxy measurement when the things you're trying to measure are hard to measure. That stuff is easy! Fundamentally my point is libertarian: If we want to regulate safety, we should regulate safety and not play dumb games with weight rules that then need to be tuned for EVs or whatnot. Fine-tuned rulemaking doesn't work.

bryanmgreen 4y ago

Correct - a "one-size fits all" solution would be foolish! But... This has been accounted for to not penalize EVs disproportionately :) Hopefully battery tech can improve at a steady pace that there are in the near-ish future notable reductions in weight.

zip1234 4y ago

Weight should certainly be part of the calculation. Road wear, momentum at speed, and particulate emissions (including from tires) all increase with weight.