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My question is if this will eventually backfire on kidnappers, because if this escalates enough if might create the expectation that it's not real, so a genuine

My question is if this will eventually backfire on kidnappers, because if this escalates enough if might create the expectation that it's not real, so a genuine kidnapper can't distinguish themselves credibly from a virtual kidnapper, because what previously was credible proof of life (the voice of the victim) is no longer so.

dmix 4y ago
Do random people even get kidnapped for ransom anymore? It seems like technology and risk/reward killed that one pretty quickly. At least in the west and places with stable governments/law enforcement.
- Beltiras 4y ago
  It's hard to find good data from the US due to how statistics are collected. upwards of a million children go missing each year.
  - dmix 4y ago
    That stat doesn't provide much insight when asking about ransom or the sort of criminal schemes we're talking about.
    - Beltiras 4y ago
      I know. If only the data were collected at all so we could have a discussion about kidnapping in the USA....
  - from 4y ago
    That is almost entirely runaways and of the small fraction that isn't they are usually abducted by other relatives. About 99% of them return home [safely](https://www.ojp.gov/pdffiles1/ojjdp/196465.pdf#page=6 https://www.ojp.gov/pdffiles1/ojjdp/196465.pdf#page=6). Taken (2006) style kidnappings basically do not happen. Edit: https://www.missingkids.org/ourwork/impact https://www.missingkids.org/ourwork/impact says there were 142 "nonfamily abductions" in 2021 and 121 of those were resolved.
  - rockemsockem 4y ago
    And most of those are taken by a parent or close family member if I remember correctly. So that's not really relevant.
- uncertainrhymes 4y ago
  It is still quite common in Mexico and Latin America. It can even be somewhat civilized, where if both sides play by the rules it turns out fine. Common in the sense that most people are never kidnapped, but everyone knows someone who has been.
mlyle 4y ago
> My question is if this will eventually backfire on kidnappers, It's kind of weird to have both groups combined like this. We're talking about different people. The same person isn't a "fake kidnapper" and a "legitimate kidnapper". (Boy, that sentence felt strange to write). Yes, scammers make it harder for people who would engage in the genuine version of the commerce.
- larsiusprime 4y ago
  Yes, by "kidnapper" I meant someone who had actually kidnapped someone. Virtual kidnappers are going to be able to increasingly make a quick buck, but presumably at the cost of actual kidnappers by reducing the credibility of their threats, which in turn might ultimately reduce the ability of virtual kidnappers to make money themselves once everyone believes all the threats are fake. Wonder what the equilibrium is and whether it's better or worse for society than the status quo.

dmix 4y ago

Do random people even get kidnapped for ransom anymore? It seems like technology and risk/reward killed that one pretty quickly. At least in the west and places with stable governments/law enforcement.

Beltiras 4y ago
It's hard to find good data from the US due to how statistics are collected. upwards of a million children go missing each year.
- dmix 4y ago
  That stat doesn't provide much insight when asking about ransom or the sort of criminal schemes we're talking about.
  - Beltiras 4y ago
    I know. If only the data were collected at all so we could have a discussion about kidnapping in the USA....
- from 4y ago
  That is almost entirely runaways and of the small fraction that isn't they are usually abducted by other relatives. About 99% of them return home [safely](https://www.ojp.gov/pdffiles1/ojjdp/196465.pdf#page=6 https://www.ojp.gov/pdffiles1/ojjdp/196465.pdf#page=6). Taken (2006) style kidnappings basically do not happen. Edit: https://www.missingkids.org/ourwork/impact https://www.missingkids.org/ourwork/impact says there were 142 "nonfamily abductions" in 2021 and 121 of those were resolved.
- rockemsockem 4y ago
  And most of those are taken by a parent or close family member if I remember correctly. So that's not really relevant.
uncertainrhymes 4y ago
It is still quite common in Mexico and Latin America. It can even be somewhat civilized, where if both sides play by the rules it turns out fine. Common in the sense that most people are never kidnapped, but everyone knows someone who has been.

mlyle 4y ago

> My question is if this will eventually backfire on kidnappers, It's kind of weird to have both groups combined like this. We're talking about different people. The same person isn't a "fake kidnapper" and a "legitimate kidnapper". (Boy, that sentence felt strange to write). Yes, scammers make it harder for people who would engage in the genuine version of the commerce.

larsiusprime 4y ago
Yes, by "kidnapper" I meant someone who had actually kidnapped someone. Virtual kidnappers are going to be able to increasingly make a quick buck, but presumably at the cost of actual kidnappers by reducing the credibility of their threats, which in turn might ultimately reduce the ability of virtual kidnappers to make money themselves once everyone believes all the threats are fake. Wonder what the equilibrium is and whether it's better or worse for society than the status quo.