5 ms·

Maybe we could invent a place to put criminals so they are away from regular law abiding folks. This might even be a solved problem. [Yes /sarcasm obviously]

kube-system 4y ago
The place where they used to put criminals is the only place in SF with a moat big enough to keep the criminals away! :D But on a serious note, mental health and addiction is not solved by prisons.
- gadders 4y ago
  Serious question, but why would SF have more of a mental health and addiction problem than other cities? The climate would be nicer in, say, LA or the Carolinas so it's not weather-related.
  - kube-system 4y ago
    I'm not sure that SF does have more of a mental health or addiction problem. It certainly is visible in SF, but other cities have worse statistics depending on what specifically you're measuring. eg: https://drexel.edu/uhc/resources/briefs/BCHC%20Drug%20Overdose/ https://drexel.edu/uhc/resources/briefs/BCHC%20Drug%20Overdo... I'd say the reason it is more visible in SF is due to a combination of the density, walkability, and policies that don't hide the problem as much behind locked doors.
giraffe_lady 4y ago
Don't we already try that approach more than any other place in the world? Is the problem solved?
- gadders 4y ago
  Do they try that in SF? My understanding was that they moved away from this model. And it doesn't have to be jail if they have mental health or whatever issues. Just put the people that hurt other people in a place where they can't hurt other people.
  - giraffe_lady 4y ago
    They moved away from it because it doesn't work. It's not working anywhere else either, why would they go back to it? The name doesn't matter call it what you want but when you take a stigmatized group widely considered criminal and a nuisance, not rightly or "correctly" part of society and put them in a place they are not free to leave atrocities are inevitable. And why even them in the first place? Why is the conversation not about jailing a landlord who evicts someone in mental health crisis? They've caused plenty harm.
    - gadders 4y ago
      Whatever they're doing or not doing now is clearly worse. Again I'd ask why the problem is worse in SF than other American cities with better climates.
      - giraffe_lady 4y ago
        It's a good question! The climate isn't unique but I think the economic and income dynamics may be. Either way though "this isn't working so let's do the other thing we know also doesn't work" isn't a very rigorous approach. I get the frustration but we know that wouldn't solve it, because it didn't solve it there and hasn't solved it anywhere.
    - LawTalkingGuy 4y ago
      > Why is the conversation not about jailing a landlord who evicts someone in mental health crisis? What a commie answer, to blame the person who has actually supplied something because they can't keep providing forever. Why not jail the neighbors, who obviously refused to start a go-fund-me to pay for the apartment? Why not jail facebook employees for not making it mandatory to view said go-fund-me to pay for the apartment? Why not jail the elementary school teacher who took a job in a different town many years ago, thus depriving the poor victim of a different path in life. Why not simply jail anyone with more than the homeless person, to achieve full societal equity?
      - 4y ago

kube-system 4y ago

The place where they used to put criminals is the only place in SF with a moat big enough to keep the criminals away! :D But on a serious note, mental health and addiction is not solved by prisons.

gadders 4y ago
Serious question, but why would SF have more of a mental health and addiction problem than other cities? The climate would be nicer in, say, LA or the Carolinas so it's not weather-related.
- kube-system 4y ago
  I'm not sure that SF does have more of a mental health or addiction problem. It certainly is visible in SF, but other cities have worse statistics depending on what specifically you're measuring. eg: https://drexel.edu/uhc/resources/briefs/BCHC%20Drug%20Overdose/ https://drexel.edu/uhc/resources/briefs/BCHC%20Drug%20Overdo... I'd say the reason it is more visible in SF is due to a combination of the density, walkability, and policies that don't hide the problem as much behind locked doors.

giraffe_lady 4y ago

Don't we already try that approach more than any other place in the world? Is the problem solved?

gadders 4y ago
Do they try that in SF? My understanding was that they moved away from this model. And it doesn't have to be jail if they have mental health or whatever issues. Just put the people that hurt other people in a place where they can't hurt other people.
- giraffe_lady 4y ago
  They moved away from it because it doesn't work. It's not working anywhere else either, why would they go back to it? The name doesn't matter call it what you want but when you take a stigmatized group widely considered criminal and a nuisance, not rightly or "correctly" part of society and put them in a place they are not free to leave atrocities are inevitable. And why even them in the first place? Why is the conversation not about jailing a landlord who evicts someone in mental health crisis? They've caused plenty harm.
  - gadders 4y ago
    Whatever they're doing or not doing now is clearly worse. Again I'd ask why the problem is worse in SF than other American cities with better climates.
    - giraffe_lady 4y ago
      It's a good question! The climate isn't unique but I think the economic and income dynamics may be. Either way though "this isn't working so let's do the other thing we know also doesn't work" isn't a very rigorous approach. I get the frustration but we know that wouldn't solve it, because it didn't solve it there and hasn't solved it anywhere.
  - LawTalkingGuy 4y ago
    > Why is the conversation not about jailing a landlord who evicts someone in mental health crisis? What a commie answer, to blame the person who has actually supplied something because they can't keep providing forever. Why not jail the neighbors, who obviously refused to start a go-fund-me to pay for the apartment? Why not jail facebook employees for not making it mandatory to view said go-fund-me to pay for the apartment? Why not jail the elementary school teacher who took a job in a different town many years ago, thus depriving the poor victim of a different path in life. Why not simply jail anyone with more than the homeless person, to achieve full societal equity?
    - 4y ago