6 ms·

You have an address on your passport? I can see how that could cause issues if the address isn't valid. If I'd have to determine if your order was fraudulent or

by 2000UltraDeluxe 4y ago

You have an address on your passport? I can see how that could cause issues if the address isn't valid. If I'd have to determine if your order was fraudulent or not, I'd err on the side of caution rather than risk having you abuse my server infrastructure (in the case of Hetzner).

datenwolf 4y ago
A lot of people confuse the passport (Pass) with the national identity card (Personalausweis). There's no place of residence stated on the German passport, but it is part of the Personalausweis. Since German citizens by law are required to own a Personalausweis (there's no mandate to carry it around, just having it somewhere in a drawer suffices), practically all businesses in Germany do rely on the Personalausweis to validate identities. And of course if the place of residence stated on the Personalausweis doesn't match the actual place of residence this is going to trigger some red flags.
- andix 4y ago
  This is a very German thing. I’ve never seen ID cards from other countries that include an address of residence. Also the obligation to own an ID card is a very foreign concept in most other countries. I had that issue with German companies before, especially those who rarely deal with international customers. For example in Austria only a few people own an ID card (most people have a passport, but not everyone). So the german companies were very surprised when I gave them a copy of the Austrian ID card, that also doesn’t have an address on it.
  - krab 4y ago
    Strange for me - the CZ ID cards work the same way as described.
    - andix 4y ago
      True. I just checked the ID cards for a few EU countries, and most of them don't seem to include an address of residence (I checked Poland, Netherlands, Belgium, Finland and Switzerland). France includes an address too. https://www.consilium.europa.eu/prado/en/search-by-document-country.html https://www.consilium.europa.eu/prado/en/search-by-document-...
  - rascul 4y ago
    > I’ve never seen ID cards from other countries that include an address of residence. In the USA the driver's licenses are ID cards and have addresses. Or if you don't have a license you can get a regular ID card, which has an address. The laws vary from state to state about how long you can go after you move before it gets updated. I'm not aware of a legal requirement to have one though, unless you're driving.
    - andix 4y ago
      I thought the only way in the US to prove your address of residence is collecting your last few phone bills and bank statements. It was a huge LOL moment, when I first heard about that.
      - singlow 4y ago
        Its definitely not the only way but it is an option for some people who don't have other types of id.
      - blackshaw 4y ago
        This is true in the UK - driving licenses have your address on them, but for some reason they're not usually accepted as proof of address. I assume this is because you only need to renew the license (i.e. get a new copy of the physical piece of plastic with an updated photo and expiry date) every ten years, so in theory your driving license could be evidence that you lived somewhere nine years ago but not evidence that you still live there today. Providing a recent utility bill or bank statement is a much more common ask.
      - thewebcount 4y ago
        Yeah, it's really odd and circular. You can often present a lease agreement if you're renting an apartment or house. If you own, you can usually present a mortgage statement. If you own and don't have a mortgage (because you purchased with cash), you can use bank statement and/or phone statement. But what's funny is, how do you get the bank statement and/or phone statement? You usually have to show a lease agreement, mortgage statement, or some other proof you own the place you live. It's fairly difficult for someone coming from another country to get those things when they first arrive because all the documents they have are from another country and the entry-level employees that have to take them would have no idea what to do with them. My foreign friends and neighbors have stories about having to use a secured credit card (basically a debit card but the machines think it's a credit card) for 6-12 months before they could get a regular credit card. It's very confusing (and arbitrary and broken) if you're not on the easy path.
  - Faaak 4y ago
    Spain does that
  - jordij1 4y ago
    Spain also has the address in the DNI (national document of identity), and as the Germans Spain's citizens are also required to have such a document. Many public and private services will ask for your DNI if they need to validate your identity.
  - blackshaw 4y ago
    > the obligation to own an ID card is a very foreign concept in most other countries. Is it? From a quick search it looks like a very large number of countries have compulsory ID cards: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_national_identity_card_policies_by_country#/media/File:National_ID_card_policy.svg https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_national_identity_card...
  - sine_break 4y ago
    US does not have such cards, that is why they have issues with voter verification. Most countries have free IDs for citizens.
    - vineyardmike 4y ago
      Yes we do have government provided ID cards. Your driver’s license (or if you don’t drive there’s a non-driver version that’s just a card). There is no mandate to get one or carry it (except for driving). We have issues with voter registration because it’s been politicized. Poor people are disproportionately less likely to have ID cards (because it costs money, takes time, and most people get it to drive which is expensive), less likely to have it up to date. It’s disenfranchising to mandate IDs. Whether or not it’s a problem falls down party lines and your favorite statistician’s analysis. But that’s why it’s “an issue”.
      - bee_rider 4y ago
        We have government issues ID cards, but we don’t have free government issued ID cards as far as I know, which is one of the problem with these voter ID laws.
        HideousKojima 4y ago
        It ranges from $10 to $90 depending on the state (average is ~$30) and most states also have a discounted rate for people under the poverty line.
        bee_rider 4y ago
        It is unacceptable to charge people any amount of money for a voting requirement.
        mardifoufs 4y ago
        Seems to work fine in Canada. We also pay for our IDs, at least here in quebec.
  - biomcgary 4y ago
    Is the ID requirement a leftover from the Nazi era? I don't suppose Germany ever issued a blanket repeal of all the laws passed during that error.
    - usr1106 4y ago
      The law has been changed numerous times since then. However, the requirement to possess an ID was introduced with the start of WW II. So it's not completely wrong to call it a Nazi invention.
  - manuelmoreale 4y ago
    We have address printed on ID cards here in Italy, just as an extra data point in addition to the other people who have replied already.
  - stefandesu 4y ago
    Apparently, it isn't obligatory to have an ID card here im Germany. My friend researched this last time his ID was about to expire and decided to go with passport only. The only problem is when you have to verify your address, since that's usually done via ID.
    - andix 4y ago
      True. But it’s still obligatory to have an ID. In a lot of countries this is not the case.
- red_trumpet 4y ago
  To add to this, it is actually forbidden to have a different main residency than the one on your Personalausweis if you live in Germany. If you move, you have to change it within a few weeks.
  - nixass 4y ago
    This is dumb. Should I go to my home country and update my personal ID/passport every time I change apartment in Germany?
    - deleted 4y ago
      [deleted]
    - detaro 4y ago
      If you have residency permit, that gets updated. If you don't have (EU citizen) then having done the registration is enough. (I think GPs wording isn't particularly precise: what matters is the registration - and if you have a German ID document, then that gets updated at that point)
- mjochim 4y ago
  German law requires you to own a Personalausweis or Reisepass (passport). If you have a passport, you are not required to also have an ID card/Personalausweis.
- onefkgff 4y ago
  There is a common misconception about the law. Germans are only required to have either a passport or a NIC.
- fs111 4y ago
  > Since German citizens by law are required to own a Personalausweis This is not true. You must have an Identitätsnachweis, but if you have a valid passport you do not need a Personalausweis.
FinnKuhn 4y ago
German Passports have the City/Region you life in on them. The ID cards have your full address. So if the address of your ID card doesn't match your passport something is definitely fishy as you would have to get them updated when you move.
- ChuffedToBits 4y ago
  German (and most other?) passports feature the name of the issuing authority and place of birth, no other location, and remain valid irregardless of your current registered address. Side note: It seems like many African ID cards list the profession and I've had to explain to several suspicious border guards why my passport doesn't. EDIT: I've always wondered about this and apparently the body that sets passport specifications is ICAO, the International Civil Aviation Organization, as mandated by the UN. Specifically through ICAO document 9303.[1] [1]https://www.icao.int/publications/documents/9303_p4_cons_en.pdf https://www.icao.int/publications/documents/9303_p4_cons_en....
  - FinnKuhn 4y ago
    The German Passport has field for your Residence, which is mandatory and needs to be updated when you move. It is generally the general location you live in, usually your city. You can see the field in this official example passport (field 11): https://www.gesetze-im-internet.de/normengrafiken/bgbl1_2017/j0162-1_0240.jpg https://www.gesetze-im-internet.de/normengrafiken/bgbl1_2017...
    - ChuffedToBits 4y ago
      Ah, you're right. I guess I never looked at page 2. Never updated it either.
      - FinnKuhn 4y ago
        Technically you would need to do that I think (it is free at your local Bürgeramt). I just did it together with the registration.
nixass 4y ago
Yes, there's address on all three - passport, national ID and driving license. Passport and national ID are from southern EU country, driving license is northern EU country and I live in Germany. I have no intention on changing any of addresses on any of my IDs or driving license until legally required (10+ years from now).

datenwolf 4y ago

A lot of people confuse the passport (Pass) with the national identity card (Personalausweis). There's no place of residence stated on the German passport, but it is part of the Personalausweis. Since German citizens by law are required to own a Personalausweis (there's no mandate to carry it around, just having it somewhere in a drawer suffices), practically all businesses in Germany do rely on the Personalausweis to validate identities. And of course if the place of residence stated on the Personalausweis doesn't match the actual place of residence this is going to trigger some red flags.

andix 4y ago
This is a very German thing. I’ve never seen ID cards from other countries that include an address of residence. Also the obligation to own an ID card is a very foreign concept in most other countries. I had that issue with German companies before, especially those who rarely deal with international customers. For example in Austria only a few people own an ID card (most people have a passport, but not everyone). So the german companies were very surprised when I gave them a copy of the Austrian ID card, that also doesn’t have an address on it.
- krab 4y ago
  Strange for me - the CZ ID cards work the same way as described.
  - andix 4y ago
    True. I just checked the ID cards for a few EU countries, and most of them don't seem to include an address of residence (I checked Poland, Netherlands, Belgium, Finland and Switzerland). France includes an address too. https://www.consilium.europa.eu/prado/en/search-by-document-country.html https://www.consilium.europa.eu/prado/en/search-by-document-...
- rascul 4y ago
  > I’ve never seen ID cards from other countries that include an address of residence. In the USA the driver's licenses are ID cards and have addresses. Or if you don't have a license you can get a regular ID card, which has an address. The laws vary from state to state about how long you can go after you move before it gets updated. I'm not aware of a legal requirement to have one though, unless you're driving.
  - andix 4y ago
    I thought the only way in the US to prove your address of residence is collecting your last few phone bills and bank statements. It was a huge LOL moment, when I first heard about that.
    - singlow 4y ago
      Its definitely not the only way but it is an option for some people who don't have other types of id.
    - blackshaw 4y ago
      This is true in the UK - driving licenses have your address on them, but for some reason they're not usually accepted as proof of address. I assume this is because you only need to renew the license (i.e. get a new copy of the physical piece of plastic with an updated photo and expiry date) every ten years, so in theory your driving license could be evidence that you lived somewhere nine years ago but not evidence that you still live there today. Providing a recent utility bill or bank statement is a much more common ask.
    - thewebcount 4y ago
      Yeah, it's really odd and circular. You can often present a lease agreement if you're renting an apartment or house. If you own, you can usually present a mortgage statement. If you own and don't have a mortgage (because you purchased with cash), you can use bank statement and/or phone statement. But what's funny is, how do you get the bank statement and/or phone statement? You usually have to show a lease agreement, mortgage statement, or some other proof you own the place you live. It's fairly difficult for someone coming from another country to get those things when they first arrive because all the documents they have are from another country and the entry-level employees that have to take them would have no idea what to do with them. My foreign friends and neighbors have stories about having to use a secured credit card (basically a debit card but the machines think it's a credit card) for 6-12 months before they could get a regular credit card. It's very confusing (and arbitrary and broken) if you're not on the easy path.
- Faaak 4y ago
  Spain does that
- jordij1 4y ago
  Spain also has the address in the DNI (national document of identity), and as the Germans Spain's citizens are also required to have such a document. Many public and private services will ask for your DNI if they need to validate your identity.
- blackshaw 4y ago
  > the obligation to own an ID card is a very foreign concept in most other countries. Is it? From a quick search it looks like a very large number of countries have compulsory ID cards: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_national_identity_card_policies_by_country#/media/File:National_ID_card_policy.svg https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_national_identity_card...
- sine_break 4y ago
  US does not have such cards, that is why they have issues with voter verification. Most countries have free IDs for citizens.
  - vineyardmike 4y ago
    Yes we do have government provided ID cards. Your driver’s license (or if you don’t drive there’s a non-driver version that’s just a card). There is no mandate to get one or carry it (except for driving). We have issues with voter registration because it’s been politicized. Poor people are disproportionately less likely to have ID cards (because it costs money, takes time, and most people get it to drive which is expensive), less likely to have it up to date. It’s disenfranchising to mandate IDs. Whether or not it’s a problem falls down party lines and your favorite statistician’s analysis. But that’s why it’s “an issue”.
    - bee_rider 4y ago
      We have government issues ID cards, but we don’t have free government issued ID cards as far as I know, which is one of the problem with these voter ID laws.
      - HideousKojima 4y ago
        It ranges from $10 to $90 depending on the state (average is ~$30) and most states also have a discounted rate for people under the poverty line.
        bee_rider 4y ago
        It is unacceptable to charge people any amount of money for a voting requirement.
        mardifoufs 4y ago
        Seems to work fine in Canada. We also pay for our IDs, at least here in quebec.
- biomcgary 4y ago
  Is the ID requirement a leftover from the Nazi era? I don't suppose Germany ever issued a blanket repeal of all the laws passed during that error.
  - usr1106 4y ago
    The law has been changed numerous times since then. However, the requirement to possess an ID was introduced with the start of WW II. So it's not completely wrong to call it a Nazi invention.
- manuelmoreale 4y ago
  We have address printed on ID cards here in Italy, just as an extra data point in addition to the other people who have replied already.
- stefandesu 4y ago
  Apparently, it isn't obligatory to have an ID card here im Germany. My friend researched this last time his ID was about to expire and decided to go with passport only. The only problem is when you have to verify your address, since that's usually done via ID.
  - andix 4y ago
    True. But it’s still obligatory to have an ID. In a lot of countries this is not the case.
red_trumpet 4y ago
To add to this, it is actually forbidden to have a different main residency than the one on your Personalausweis if you live in Germany. If you move, you have to change it within a few weeks.
- nixass 4y ago
  This is dumb. Should I go to my home country and update my personal ID/passport every time I change apartment in Germany?
  - deleted 4y ago
    [deleted]
  - detaro 4y ago
    If you have residency permit, that gets updated. If you don't have (EU citizen) then having done the registration is enough. (I think GPs wording isn't particularly precise: what matters is the registration - and if you have a German ID document, then that gets updated at that point)
mjochim 4y ago
German law requires you to own a Personalausweis or Reisepass (passport). If you have a passport, you are not required to also have an ID card/Personalausweis.
onefkgff 4y ago
There is a common misconception about the law. Germans are only required to have either a passport or a NIC.
fs111 4y ago
> Since German citizens by law are required to own a Personalausweis This is not true. You must have an Identitätsnachweis, but if you have a valid passport you do not need a Personalausweis.

FinnKuhn 4y ago

German Passports have the City/Region you life in on them. The ID cards have your full address. So if the address of your ID card doesn't match your passport something is definitely fishy as you would have to get them updated when you move.

ChuffedToBits 4y ago
German (and most other?) passports feature the name of the issuing authority and place of birth, no other location, and remain valid irregardless of your current registered address. Side note: It seems like many African ID cards list the profession and I've had to explain to several suspicious border guards why my passport doesn't. EDIT: I've always wondered about this and apparently the body that sets passport specifications is ICAO, the International Civil Aviation Organization, as mandated by the UN. Specifically through ICAO document 9303.[1] [1]https://www.icao.int/publications/documents/9303_p4_cons_en.pdf https://www.icao.int/publications/documents/9303_p4_cons_en....
- FinnKuhn 4y ago
  The German Passport has field for your Residence, which is mandatory and needs to be updated when you move. It is generally the general location you live in, usually your city. You can see the field in this official example passport (field 11): https://www.gesetze-im-internet.de/normengrafiken/bgbl1_2017/j0162-1_0240.jpg https://www.gesetze-im-internet.de/normengrafiken/bgbl1_2017...
  - ChuffedToBits 4y ago
    Ah, you're right. I guess I never looked at page 2. Never updated it either.
    - FinnKuhn 4y ago
      Technically you would need to do that I think (it is free at your local Bürgeramt). I just did it together with the registration.

nixass 4y ago

Yes, there's address on all three - passport, national ID and driving license. Passport and national ID are from southern EU country, driving license is northern EU country and I live in Germany. I have no intention on changing any of addresses on any of my IDs or driving license until legally required (10+ years from now).