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> The required either PayPal or passport I had similar struggles with some non-IT service providers in Germany. They couldn't fathom why I have non-German nati

by nixass 4y ago

> The required either PayPal or passport I had similar struggles with some non-IT service providers in Germany. They couldn't fathom why I have non-German nationality, German address and driving license from third country. Passport, German address and driving license all have different address on them (all three being EU addresses). It is apparently huge red flag in EU in 21st century. Incredible

2000UltraDeluxe 4y ago
You have an address on your passport? I can see how that could cause issues if the address isn't valid. If I'd have to determine if your order was fraudulent or not, I'd err on the side of caution rather than risk having you abuse my server infrastructure (in the case of Hetzner).
- datenwolf 4y ago
  A lot of people confuse the passport (Pass) with the national identity card (Personalausweis). There's no place of residence stated on the German passport, but it is part of the Personalausweis. Since German citizens by law are required to own a Personalausweis (there's no mandate to carry it around, just having it somewhere in a drawer suffices), practically all businesses in Germany do rely on the Personalausweis to validate identities. And of course if the place of residence stated on the Personalausweis doesn't match the actual place of residence this is going to trigger some red flags.
  - andix 4y ago
    This is a very German thing. I’ve never seen ID cards from other countries that include an address of residence. Also the obligation to own an ID card is a very foreign concept in most other countries. I had that issue with German companies before, especially those who rarely deal with international customers. For example in Austria only a few people own an ID card (most people have a passport, but not everyone). So the german companies were very surprised when I gave them a copy of the Austrian ID card, that also doesn’t have an address on it.
    - krab 4y ago
      Strange for me - the CZ ID cards work the same way as described.
      - andix 4y ago
        True. I just checked the ID cards for a few EU countries, and most of them don't seem to include an address of residence (I checked Poland, Netherlands, Belgium, Finland and Switzerland). France includes an address too. https://www.consilium.europa.eu/prado/en/search-by-document-country.html https://www.consilium.europa.eu/prado/en/search-by-document-...
    - rascul 4y ago
      > I’ve never seen ID cards from other countries that include an address of residence. In the USA the driver's licenses are ID cards and have addresses. Or if you don't have a license you can get a regular ID card, which has an address. The laws vary from state to state about how long you can go after you move before it gets updated. I'm not aware of a legal requirement to have one though, unless you're driving.
      - andix 4y ago
        I thought the only way in the US to prove your address of residence is collecting your last few phone bills and bank statements. It was a huge LOL moment, when I first heard about that.
        singlow 4y ago
        Its definitely not the only way but it is an option for some people who don't have other types of id.
        blackshaw 4y ago
        This is true in the UK - driving licenses have your address on them, but for some reason they're not usually accepted as proof of address. I assume this is because you only need to renew the license (i.e. get a new copy of the physical piece of plastic with an updated photo and expiry date) every ten years, so in theory your driving license could be evidence that you lived somewhere nine years ago but not evidence that you still live there today. Providing a recent utility bill or bank statement is a much more common ask.
  - red_trumpet 4y ago
    To add to this, it is actually forbidden to have a different main residency than the one on your Personalausweis if you live in Germany. If you move, you have to change it within a few weeks.
    - nixass 4y ago
      This is dumb. Should I go to my home country and update my personal ID/passport every time I change apartment in Germany?
      - deleted 4y ago
        [deleted]
      - detaro 4y ago
        If you have residency permit, that gets updated. If you don't have (EU citizen) then having done the registration is enough. (I think GPs wording isn't particularly precise: what matters is the registration - and if you have a German ID document, then that gets updated at that point)
  - mjochim 4y ago
    German law requires you to own a Personalausweis or Reisepass (passport). If you have a passport, you are not required to also have an ID card/Personalausweis.
  - onefkgff 4y ago
    There is a common misconception about the law. Germans are only required to have either a passport or a NIC.
  - fs111 4y ago
    > Since German citizens by law are required to own a Personalausweis This is not true. You must have an Identitätsnachweis, but if you have a valid passport you do not need a Personalausweis.
- FinnKuhn 4y ago
  German Passports have the City/Region you life in on them. The ID cards have your full address. So if the address of your ID card doesn't match your passport something is definitely fishy as you would have to get them updated when you move.
  - ChuffedToBits 4y ago
    German (and most other?) passports feature the name of the issuing authority and place of birth, no other location, and remain valid irregardless of your current registered address. Side note: It seems like many African ID cards list the profession and I've had to explain to several suspicious border guards why my passport doesn't. EDIT: I've always wondered about this and apparently the body that sets passport specifications is ICAO, the International Civil Aviation Organization, as mandated by the UN. Specifically through ICAO document 9303.[1] [1]https://www.icao.int/publications/documents/9303_p4_cons_en.pdf https://www.icao.int/publications/documents/9303_p4_cons_en....
    - FinnKuhn 4y ago
      The German Passport has field for your Residence, which is mandatory and needs to be updated when you move. It is generally the general location you live in, usually your city. You can see the field in this official example passport (field 11): https://www.gesetze-im-internet.de/normengrafiken/bgbl1_2017/j0162-1_0240.jpg https://www.gesetze-im-internet.de/normengrafiken/bgbl1_2017...
      - ChuffedToBits 4y ago
        Ah, you're right. I guess I never looked at page 2. Never updated it either.
        FinnKuhn 4y ago
        Technically you would need to do that I think (it is free at your local Bürgeramt). I just did it together with the registration.
- nixass 4y ago
  Yes, there's address on all three - passport, national ID and driving license. Passport and national ID are from southern EU country, driving license is northern EU country and I live in Germany. I have no intention on changing any of addresses on any of my IDs or driving license until legally required (10+ years from now).

by nixass 4y ago

2000UltraDeluxe 4y ago

You have an address on your passport? I can see how that could cause issues if the address isn't valid. If I'd have to determine if your order was fraudulent or not, I'd err on the side of caution rather than risk having you abuse my server infrastructure (in the case of Hetzner).

datenwolf 4y ago
A lot of people confuse the passport (Pass) with the national identity card (Personalausweis). There's no place of residence stated on the German passport, but it is part of the Personalausweis. Since German citizens by law are required to own a Personalausweis (there's no mandate to carry it around, just having it somewhere in a drawer suffices), practically all businesses in Germany do rely on the Personalausweis to validate identities. And of course if the place of residence stated on the Personalausweis doesn't match the actual place of residence this is going to trigger some red flags.
- andix 4y ago
  This is a very German thing. I’ve never seen ID cards from other countries that include an address of residence. Also the obligation to own an ID card is a very foreign concept in most other countries. I had that issue with German companies before, especially those who rarely deal with international customers. For example in Austria only a few people own an ID card (most people have a passport, but not everyone). So the german companies were very surprised when I gave them a copy of the Austrian ID card, that also doesn’t have an address on it.
  - krab 4y ago
    Strange for me - the CZ ID cards work the same way as described.
    - andix 4y ago
      True. I just checked the ID cards for a few EU countries, and most of them don't seem to include an address of residence (I checked Poland, Netherlands, Belgium, Finland and Switzerland). France includes an address too. https://www.consilium.europa.eu/prado/en/search-by-document-country.html https://www.consilium.europa.eu/prado/en/search-by-document-...
  - rascul 4y ago
    > I’ve never seen ID cards from other countries that include an address of residence. In the USA the driver's licenses are ID cards and have addresses. Or if you don't have a license you can get a regular ID card, which has an address. The laws vary from state to state about how long you can go after you move before it gets updated. I'm not aware of a legal requirement to have one though, unless you're driving.
    - andix 4y ago
      I thought the only way in the US to prove your address of residence is collecting your last few phone bills and bank statements. It was a huge LOL moment, when I first heard about that.
      - singlow 4y ago
        Its definitely not the only way but it is an option for some people who don't have other types of id.
      - blackshaw 4y ago
        This is true in the UK - driving licenses have your address on them, but for some reason they're not usually accepted as proof of address. I assume this is because you only need to renew the license (i.e. get a new copy of the physical piece of plastic with an updated photo and expiry date) every ten years, so in theory your driving license could be evidence that you lived somewhere nine years ago but not evidence that you still live there today. Providing a recent utility bill or bank statement is a much more common ask.
- red_trumpet 4y ago
  To add to this, it is actually forbidden to have a different main residency than the one on your Personalausweis if you live in Germany. If you move, you have to change it within a few weeks.
  - nixass 4y ago
    This is dumb. Should I go to my home country and update my personal ID/passport every time I change apartment in Germany?
    - deleted 4y ago
      [deleted]
    - detaro 4y ago
      If you have residency permit, that gets updated. If you don't have (EU citizen) then having done the registration is enough. (I think GPs wording isn't particularly precise: what matters is the registration - and if you have a German ID document, then that gets updated at that point)
- mjochim 4y ago
  German law requires you to own a Personalausweis or Reisepass (passport). If you have a passport, you are not required to also have an ID card/Personalausweis.
- onefkgff 4y ago
  There is a common misconception about the law. Germans are only required to have either a passport or a NIC.
- fs111 4y ago
  > Since German citizens by law are required to own a Personalausweis This is not true. You must have an Identitätsnachweis, but if you have a valid passport you do not need a Personalausweis.
FinnKuhn 4y ago
German Passports have the City/Region you life in on them. The ID cards have your full address. So if the address of your ID card doesn't match your passport something is definitely fishy as you would have to get them updated when you move.
- ChuffedToBits 4y ago
  German (and most other?) passports feature the name of the issuing authority and place of birth, no other location, and remain valid irregardless of your current registered address. Side note: It seems like many African ID cards list the profession and I've had to explain to several suspicious border guards why my passport doesn't. EDIT: I've always wondered about this and apparently the body that sets passport specifications is ICAO, the International Civil Aviation Organization, as mandated by the UN. Specifically through ICAO document 9303.[1] [1]https://www.icao.int/publications/documents/9303_p4_cons_en.pdf https://www.icao.int/publications/documents/9303_p4_cons_en....
  - FinnKuhn 4y ago
    The German Passport has field for your Residence, which is mandatory and needs to be updated when you move. It is generally the general location you live in, usually your city. You can see the field in this official example passport (field 11): https://www.gesetze-im-internet.de/normengrafiken/bgbl1_2017/j0162-1_0240.jpg https://www.gesetze-im-internet.de/normengrafiken/bgbl1_2017...
    - ChuffedToBits 4y ago
      Ah, you're right. I guess I never looked at page 2. Never updated it either.
      - FinnKuhn 4y ago
        Technically you would need to do that I think (it is free at your local Bürgeramt). I just did it together with the registration.
nixass 4y ago
Yes, there's address on all three - passport, national ID and driving license. Passport and national ID are from southern EU country, driving license is northern EU country and I live in Germany. I have no intention on changing any of addresses on any of my IDs or driving license until legally required (10+ years from now).