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> the reality is that a lot of things have a terrible UI with unorganized data. that's why this tool is so amazing - because it doesn't matter anymore. how nai

> the reality is that a lot of things have a terrible UI with unorganized data. that's why this tool is so amazing - because it doesn't matter anymore. how naive. how do you know it's right? ah, you have to manually do the calculation anyway to confirm, this is what Tao ended up saying in a reply asking as much. AI is great, but it's not a silver bullet, since its correctness can never be 100% under the current LLM framework.

webdood90 4y ago
I'm convinced people like you are in for such a rude awakening. I don't understand how you can hold this position with AI considering it's only the beginning.
- endisneigh 4y ago
  ChatGPT is impressive, but I do not think it is a silver bullet, even for data cleansing and processing tasks. I would use your words and say people who think (that ChatGPT solves the problem of data cleansing once and for all) so are the ones who will be in for a rude awakening.
- ipaddr 4y ago
  I can't wait for 3d printers to take over manufacturing or self driving cars to self drive. Still waiting for the metaverse. Or cryto to take over banking. We are not even at those points for AI. You might see the future.. let's get a 3d printer in every home first.
  - jeromegv 4y ago
    What’s the use case of a 3D printer in every home? Why is that even relevant in comparaison of how useful AI can be? The use cases are already there, today.
    - uoaei 4y ago
      Ask those people who rode the hype wave 10 years ago. They had grand plans to make Star Trek replicators happen a few centuries before they were predicted. I suspect the satire whooshed over your head.
  - stocknoob 4y ago
    Can’t wait for the internet, web, cell phones, or social networks to change society… AI is closer to these than the others.
- sublinear 4y ago
  Ensuring correctness by a human is existential to the work itself, not a mere annoyance. Yes AI can do it, but the more work you give to the AI, the less control you will have on the quality of the work. This AI future you're wanting is an Idiocracy-like world where nobody knows how anything works and everything is in decay.
- worrycue 4y ago
  > considering it's only the beginning. Some of us are just burned out on the hype cycles and prefer not to count our chicks before they hatch.
- DanHulton 4y ago
  I think we're all in for a rude awakening, regarding what societal changes AI actual makes, but that's neither here nor there. You're making the same mistake you're accusing them of making - assuming to know the future at the beginning. You're assuming that fixing these issues will prove to be trivial or at least inevitable. Sure, recent progress has been swift, but if you recall, it was damn-near stagnant for decades. Some were even claiming we were in the middle of an "AI Winter" and could not see the spring! Based on all currently-available evidence, the current techniques that we utilize for generative AI are unreliable, in terms of accuracy of derived facts. It will require either a different or complementary approach to iron that out, or we're going to have to start seeing some _very interesting_ emergent properties from scaling higher. This stuff could show up tomorrow, or it might never show up at all! But the _current_ LLM framework does not look like it can do what we're looking for here, not reliably, certainly not 100% reliably.
hn_throwaway_99 4y ago
How naive to think regularly structured spreadsheets are the answer to this problem. There is a famous joke about "all your budgeting spreadsheets being useless when you discover you have a formula error in one cell that propagates throughout the whole spreadsheet". You have to do those same confirmation calculations anyway when you use a spreadsheet. In my experience the utility of something like what ChatGPT can do is still unparalleled.
golol 4y ago
AI only has to be as reliable as a human. The task is ultimately trivial and clearly in the capability of GPT-4. It is easy to statistically verify if GPT-4 has higher or equal correctness than a human. Of course Tao did not do this here, but it will be done.

webdood90 4y ago

I'm convinced people like you are in for such a rude awakening. I don't understand how you can hold this position with AI considering it's only the beginning.

endisneigh 4y ago
ChatGPT is impressive, but I do not think it is a silver bullet, even for data cleansing and processing tasks. I would use your words and say people who think (that ChatGPT solves the problem of data cleansing once and for all) so are the ones who will be in for a rude awakening.
ipaddr 4y ago
I can't wait for 3d printers to take over manufacturing or self driving cars to self drive. Still waiting for the metaverse. Or cryto to take over banking. We are not even at those points for AI. You might see the future.. let's get a 3d printer in every home first.
- jeromegv 4y ago
  What’s the use case of a 3D printer in every home? Why is that even relevant in comparaison of how useful AI can be? The use cases are already there, today.
  - uoaei 4y ago
    Ask those people who rode the hype wave 10 years ago. They had grand plans to make Star Trek replicators happen a few centuries before they were predicted. I suspect the satire whooshed over your head.
- stocknoob 4y ago
  Can’t wait for the internet, web, cell phones, or social networks to change society… AI is closer to these than the others.
sublinear 4y ago
Ensuring correctness by a human is existential to the work itself, not a mere annoyance. Yes AI can do it, but the more work you give to the AI, the less control you will have on the quality of the work. This AI future you're wanting is an Idiocracy-like world where nobody knows how anything works and everything is in decay.
worrycue 4y ago
> considering it's only the beginning. Some of us are just burned out on the hype cycles and prefer not to count our chicks before they hatch.
DanHulton 4y ago
I think we're all in for a rude awakening, regarding what societal changes AI actual makes, but that's neither here nor there. You're making the same mistake you're accusing them of making - assuming to know the future at the beginning. You're assuming that fixing these issues will prove to be trivial or at least inevitable. Sure, recent progress has been swift, but if you recall, it was damn-near stagnant for decades. Some were even claiming we were in the middle of an "AI Winter" and could not see the spring! Based on all currently-available evidence, the current techniques that we utilize for generative AI are unreliable, in terms of accuracy of derived facts. It will require either a different or complementary approach to iron that out, or we're going to have to start seeing some _very interesting_ emergent properties from scaling higher. This stuff could show up tomorrow, or it might never show up at all! But the _current_ LLM framework does not look like it can do what we're looking for here, not reliably, certainly not 100% reliably.

hn_throwaway_99 4y ago

How naive to think regularly structured spreadsheets are the answer to this problem. There is a famous joke about "all your budgeting spreadsheets being useless when you discover you have a formula error in one cell that propagates throughout the whole spreadsheet". You have to do those same confirmation calculations anyway when you use a spreadsheet. In my experience the utility of something like what ChatGPT can do is still unparalleled.

golol 4y ago

AI only has to be as reliable as a human. The task is ultimately trivial and clearly in the capability of GPT-4. It is easy to statistically verify if GPT-4 has higher or equal correctness than a human. Of course Tao did not do this here, but it will be done.