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You may ask: why is this news? Maybe we are so accustomed to upper class wealthy people committing white collar crime to never be held accountable that it’s ne

You may ask: why is this news? Maybe we are so accustomed to upper class wealthy people committing white collar crime to never be held accountable that it’s news when they actually do serve prison time. Regarding SBF I’m still appalled how he’s treated with so much leeway, lesser people would be treated quite differently. I still feel like there is really different prison systems for the rich and poor. Maybe I’m wrong.

owlglass 4y ago
> [This analysis] notes that the criminal justice system is more lenient toward white-collar offenders than nonviolent property offenders and that affluent offenders are less likely to serve prison sentences than poor offenders even when they have committed the same offense. Even the US DOJ is aware of it.[1] [1] https://www.ojp.gov/ncjrs/virtual-library/abstracts/rich-get-richer-and-poor-get-prison-ideology-crime-and-criminal https://www.ojp.gov/ncjrs/virtual-library/abstracts/rich-get...
- keldaris 4y ago
  How much of that effect could be explained by the ability to afford better legal representation rather than direct preferential treatment?
  - AnimalMuppet 4y ago
    A lot, maybe all. Still, if the rich get better legal outcomes than the poor, that's not justice, whether or not "better lawyers" is the mechanism.
    - keldaris 4y ago
      Certainly not arguing that it's fair or just, but it's important to distinguish the mechanisms to have any hope of potentially improving the situation.
cm2187 4y ago
White collar criminals do serve prison time. Like the Enron guys or Madoff. What example do you have in mind of people who were sentenced but didn't? What they typically don't do is be jailed ahead of their conviction, as violent criminal are (often), which I think is rather logical.
- jancsika 4y ago
  > While most convicted sex offenders in Florida are sent to state prison, Epstein was instead housed in a private wing of the Palm Beach County Stockade and, according to the sheriff's office, was, after 3+1⁄2 months, allowed to leave the jail on "work release" for up to 12 hours a day, 6 days a week. This contravened the sheriff's own policies requiring a maximum remaining sentence of 10 months and making sex offenders ineligible for the privilege. He was allowed to come and go outside of specified release hours.[99] > Epstein's cell door was left unlocked, and he had access to the attorney room where a television was installed for him, before he was moved to the Stockade's previously unstaffed infirmary. He worked at the office of a foundation he had created shortly before reporting to jail; he dissolved it after he had served his time. The Sheriff's Office received $128,000 from Epstein's non-profit to pay for the costs of extra services being provided during his work release. His office was monitored by "permit deputies" whose overtime was paid by Epstein. They were required to wear suits, and checked in "welcomed guests" at the "front desk". Later the Sheriff's Office said these guest logs were destroyed per the department's "records retention" rules (although inexplicably, the Stockade visitor logs were not).[117] Epstein was allowed to use his own driver to drive him between jail and his office and other appointments.
  - cm2187 4y ago
    Not a white collar criminal. Agree that this is really fishy. But different problem.
mcculley 4y ago
There really are different prison systems. A lot of white collar crime is under Federal jurisdiction. Most violent crimes are state crimes.
SkipperCat 4y ago
Why is this news? There have been so many false promises in tech during the boom of the 2010's and finally consequences are coming to those who were most egregious. Low interest rates allowed hundreds of startups to make promises of growth and profit, but all they did was burn investor money (and pay themselves). So when one of the biggest overpromise/under-deliver offenders goes to jail, it becomes schadenfreude for all of us.
- kolinko 4y ago
  It’s not about overpromise/underdeliver, byt about an outright fraud - lying to the investors. Overpromising is something that investors expect, if not even require - startups are all about doing long shot bets, with 5% chance of doing something brilliant and 95% of failing.
oldgradstudent 4y ago
> Regarding SBF I’m still appalled how he’s treated with so much leeway, lesser people would be treated quite differently. I still feel like there is really different prison systems for the rich and poor. Maybe I’m wrong. He's still innocent until proven guilty in a court of law. What is the the justification for locking him up unless he's convicted? Is there a risk he'll start another fraudulent crypto exchange or hedge fund?

owlglass 4y ago

> [This analysis] notes that the criminal justice system is more lenient toward white-collar offenders than nonviolent property offenders and that affluent offenders are less likely to serve prison sentences than poor offenders even when they have committed the same offense. Even the US DOJ is aware of it.[1] [1] https://www.ojp.gov/ncjrs/virtual-library/abstracts/rich-get-richer-and-poor-get-prison-ideology-crime-and-criminal https://www.ojp.gov/ncjrs/virtual-library/abstracts/rich-get...

keldaris 4y ago
How much of that effect could be explained by the ability to afford better legal representation rather than direct preferential treatment?
- AnimalMuppet 4y ago
  A lot, maybe all. Still, if the rich get better legal outcomes than the poor, that's not justice, whether or not "better lawyers" is the mechanism.
  - keldaris 4y ago
    Certainly not arguing that it's fair or just, but it's important to distinguish the mechanisms to have any hope of potentially improving the situation.

cm2187 4y ago

White collar criminals do serve prison time. Like the Enron guys or Madoff. What example do you have in mind of people who were sentenced but didn't? What they typically don't do is be jailed ahead of their conviction, as violent criminal are (often), which I think is rather logical.

jancsika 4y ago
> While most convicted sex offenders in Florida are sent to state prison, Epstein was instead housed in a private wing of the Palm Beach County Stockade and, according to the sheriff's office, was, after 3+1⁄2 months, allowed to leave the jail on "work release" for up to 12 hours a day, 6 days a week. This contravened the sheriff's own policies requiring a maximum remaining sentence of 10 months and making sex offenders ineligible for the privilege. He was allowed to come and go outside of specified release hours.[99] > Epstein's cell door was left unlocked, and he had access to the attorney room where a television was installed for him, before he was moved to the Stockade's previously unstaffed infirmary. He worked at the office of a foundation he had created shortly before reporting to jail; he dissolved it after he had served his time. The Sheriff's Office received $128,000 from Epstein's non-profit to pay for the costs of extra services being provided during his work release. His office was monitored by "permit deputies" whose overtime was paid by Epstein. They were required to wear suits, and checked in "welcomed guests" at the "front desk". Later the Sheriff's Office said these guest logs were destroyed per the department's "records retention" rules (although inexplicably, the Stockade visitor logs were not).[117] Epstein was allowed to use his own driver to drive him between jail and his office and other appointments.
- cm2187 4y ago
  Not a white collar criminal. Agree that this is really fishy. But different problem.

mcculley 4y ago

There really are different prison systems. A lot of white collar crime is under Federal jurisdiction. Most violent crimes are state crimes.

SkipperCat 4y ago

Why is this news? There have been so many false promises in tech during the boom of the 2010's and finally consequences are coming to those who were most egregious. Low interest rates allowed hundreds of startups to make promises of growth and profit, but all they did was burn investor money (and pay themselves). So when one of the biggest overpromise/under-deliver offenders goes to jail, it becomes schadenfreude for all of us.

kolinko 4y ago
It’s not about overpromise/underdeliver, byt about an outright fraud - lying to the investors. Overpromising is something that investors expect, if not even require - startups are all about doing long shot bets, with 5% chance of doing something brilliant and 95% of failing.

oldgradstudent 4y ago

> Regarding SBF I’m still appalled how he’s treated with so much leeway, lesser people would be treated quite differently. I still feel like there is really different prison systems for the rich and poor. Maybe I’m wrong. He's still innocent until proven guilty in a court of law. What is the the justification for locking him up unless he's convicted? Is there a risk he'll start another fraudulent crypto exchange or hedge fund?