5 ms·

Completely agree with you. I stopped working with Java not because the language or the ecosystem. I stopped working with Java because Java developers and their

by vrnvu 3y ago

Completely agree with you. I stopped working with Java not because the language or the ecosystem. I stopped working with Java because Java developers and their culture of over-engineering everything defending it as "clean code" and "good practice". But this seems a taboo topic in a culture infested with "good practice gurus".

lightbendover 3y ago
https://github.com/EnterpriseQualityCoding/FizzBuzzEnterpriseEdition https://github.com/EnterpriseQualityCoding/FizzBuzzEnterpris... isn't too far removed from some of what I've seen in big tech, especially architecture-wise. Certainly less costly absurdity.
dkarl 3y ago
Theoretically, choosing a JVM language with a good culture seems like a very attractive option. Scala has its own cultural issues, but maybe Kotlin gives you most of the nice parts of Scala without attracting the type astronauts? Maybe Clojure is an option as well, if you're willing to give up static typing? I'm leery of a language with the full power of Lisp macros, but from a distance, the Clojure culture seems to be very pragmatic.
giantrobot 3y ago
Is your program really complete if you haven't implemented all of the design patterns in the GoF book? How will it even work without an AbstractFooFactoryFactory? How else can you make stack traces unreadable to the point of being useless?
marginalia_nu 3y ago
This seems pretty uncontroversial in the Java space. I think most Java developers will wince at clean code. Clean Code made sense in contrast to the pervading gang-of-four norms that preceded it, but I don't think many people would recommend the style today.
- giantrobot 3y ago
  In my experience, there's a non-trivial number of "Java developers" stuck in the Clean Code or Design Pattern All The Things modes of development. They want every project to look like a J2EE demo. Those types of Java devs can use a lot of interesting sounding terminology but they overengineer everything and commit ludicrous amounts of code that doesn't tackle the problems at hand.
- deleted 3y ago
  [deleted]
diarrhea 3y ago
Couldn't agree more, and have found people in disagreement with my stance on that [0]. Although my context is C#, I reckon it's similar. 0: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=35486983 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=35486983
deleted 3y ago
[deleted]

by vrnvu 3y ago

lightbendover 3y ago

https://github.com/EnterpriseQualityCoding/FizzBuzzEnterpriseEdition https://github.com/EnterpriseQualityCoding/FizzBuzzEnterpris... isn't too far removed from some of what I've seen in big tech, especially architecture-wise. Certainly less costly absurdity.

dkarl 3y ago

Theoretically, choosing a JVM language with a good culture seems like a very attractive option. Scala has its own cultural issues, but maybe Kotlin gives you most of the nice parts of Scala without attracting the type astronauts? Maybe Clojure is an option as well, if you're willing to give up static typing? I'm leery of a language with the full power of Lisp macros, but from a distance, the Clojure culture seems to be very pragmatic.

giantrobot 3y ago

Is your program really complete if you haven't implemented all of the design patterns in the GoF book? How will it even work without an AbstractFooFactoryFactory? How else can you make stack traces unreadable to the point of being useless?

marginalia_nu 3y ago

This seems pretty uncontroversial in the Java space. I think most Java developers will wince at clean code. Clean Code made sense in contrast to the pervading gang-of-four norms that preceded it, but I don't think many people would recommend the style today.

giantrobot 3y ago
In my experience, there's a non-trivial number of "Java developers" stuck in the Clean Code or Design Pattern All The Things modes of development. They want every project to look like a J2EE demo. Those types of Java devs can use a lot of interesting sounding terminology but they overengineer everything and commit ludicrous amounts of code that doesn't tackle the problems at hand.
deleted 3y ago
[deleted]

diarrhea 3y ago

Couldn't agree more, and have found people in disagreement with my stance on that [0]. Although my context is C#, I reckon it's similar. 0: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=35486983 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=35486983

deleted 3y ago

[deleted]