4 ms·

C# already had all the advantages of Go (more or less) and more, yet Go is still growing. This has nothing to do with the technical capabilities of the language

C# already had all the advantages of Go (more or less) and more, yet Go is still growing. This has nothing to do with the technical capabilities of the languages.

andresp 4y ago
C# GC, MS and external libraries, build, docs, tools support (especially for Linux) are all worse than Java.
- jayd16 4y ago
  MSBuild is actually really nice, haha. I wish Gradle was that simple.
- pharmakom 4y ago
  How so? Linux is a first class citizen in .NET these days.
  - pjmlp 4y ago
    A first class citzen would have support for MAUI, and something better than VSCode like macOS gets VS4Mac.
    - jayd16 4y ago
      Does Java even have a MAUI equivalent? There are other open source frameworks for GUI apps. This feels like goal post shifting.
      - kaba0 4y ago
        The point is cross-platformness and windows does have MAUI, so not having it on linux means it is not a first-class target.
        metaltyphoon 4y ago
        MAUI is just another workload of the dotnet ecosystem. There is no technical reason for it not to work on Linux outside of someone actually doing so. This has nothing to do with C# at all.
    - Kwpolska 4y ago
      JetBrains Rider is available for Windows, Linux, and macOS, and it's much better than VS, VS for Mac, and VSCode. It's not free, but VS isn't either for any serious commercial usage, and Rider is certainly worth the money.
      - pjmlp 4y ago
        Workarounds, and still doesn't fix the issues lacking from the company that owns .NET.
        Kwpolska 4y ago
        What does the company that owns Java offer? Their Java IDE is https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/JDeveloper https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/JDeveloper and nobody uses that. The latest release came out in 2019. Everyone is using IntelliJ IDEA or perhaps Eclipse. What does the Python core community offer? IDLE is ugly, is barely an IDE, and didn’t have line numbers until a few years ago. Everyone is using PyCharm or VSCode.
        MaxBarraclough 4y ago
        NetBeans is also still going, although I don't think it has many users.
        pjmlp 4y ago
        IBM also makes Java, it offers Eclipse. Sun made Java, it offered Netbeans. As for the Python community, no one expects great tooling from FOSS languages, as you mention everyone is using tooling from two big corporations.
  - papichulo2023 4y ago
    Except for all ui-only windows-only stuff.
  - kaba0 4y ago
    You don’t become a first class citizen overnight. Also, last time I checked .NET lacks something as trivial as an open-source debugger.
    - Rapzid 4y ago
      It's been many moons, also there is an OSS debugger produced by Samsung.
DaiPlusPlus 4y ago
C# doesn’t really have an equivalent for Go’s channels syntax though. Also, Go doesn’t have inheritance, but does have interface forwarding and structural (as opposed to nominative) type-system - those both very significant factors that influence final program design.
- jayd16 4y ago
  Go literally has a Channel class with the same functionality. The major difference is async/await syntax vs goroutine syntax, no?
- pharmakom 4y ago
  .NET has channels as part of the standard library. In C# you must write explicit async/await keywords whereas in Go it is implicit, but the code reads almost the same. I would argue against using implementation inheritance generally and interfaces sparingly in C# anyways.
- foepys 4y ago
  Being not super familiar with Go, I think C#'s async/await is similar, isn't it? If you want more complex operations, you might want to look into System.IO.Pipelines.
  - Rapzid 4y ago
    Nah, totally different than channels. And Goroutines are proper managed threads with their own stacks. As an aside pipelines are terriblely unergonomic. The public APIs are not fully developed and something simple, like IDK creating an actual processing pipeline, is funky as all hell. Creating a pipe wrapper feels dirty. The buffer management is cool though and sequence seems like it should have just been made a first class slice type..
    - metaltyphoon 4y ago
      C# has channels as a library and not a language construct, it lives in System.Threading.Channels namespace.
foepys 4y ago
To be fair, .NET only recently got AOT compilation and single binary (or self-contained) deployments as officially supported features.
- Kwpolska 4y ago
  If you target the classic .NET Framework on Windows, you could just ship a single folder for a long time The .NET Framework is shipped with Windows (though not necessarily at the latest version), and the deployment strategy for your average desktop/console app is just "copy the entire bin folder".
  - foepys 4y ago
    That's true. Single file deployments were also supported in .NET Framework, only a bit obscure by registering a callback for the assembly loader and explicitly bundling every dependency as a resource in the build process.
fear91 4y ago
Writing everyday code, Go compiled binaries are on average more performant than C#.
- jayd16 4y ago
  Not really true. ...but the .NET runtime has a higher memory floor. It's a lot easier to write very small apps in Go. New versions are working on stripping in AOT builds but it's still very much a work in progress

C# already had all the advantages of Go (more or less) and more, yet Go is still growing. This has nothing to do with the technical capabilities of the languages.

andresp 4y ago

C# GC, MS and external libraries, build, docs, tools support (especially for Linux) are all worse than Java.

jayd16 4y ago
MSBuild is actually really nice, haha. I wish Gradle was that simple.
pharmakom 4y ago
How so? Linux is a first class citizen in .NET these days.
- pjmlp 4y ago
  A first class citzen would have support for MAUI, and something better than VSCode like macOS gets VS4Mac.
  - jayd16 4y ago
    Does Java even have a MAUI equivalent? There are other open source frameworks for GUI apps. This feels like goal post shifting.
    - kaba0 4y ago
      The point is cross-platformness and windows does have MAUI, so not having it on linux means it is not a first-class target.
      - metaltyphoon 4y ago
        MAUI is just another workload of the dotnet ecosystem. There is no technical reason for it not to work on Linux outside of someone actually doing so. This has nothing to do with C# at all.
  - Kwpolska 4y ago
    JetBrains Rider is available for Windows, Linux, and macOS, and it's much better than VS, VS for Mac, and VSCode. It's not free, but VS isn't either for any serious commercial usage, and Rider is certainly worth the money.
    - pjmlp 4y ago
      Workarounds, and still doesn't fix the issues lacking from the company that owns .NET.
      - Kwpolska 4y ago
        What does the company that owns Java offer? Their Java IDE is https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/JDeveloper https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/JDeveloper and nobody uses that. The latest release came out in 2019. Everyone is using IntelliJ IDEA or perhaps Eclipse. What does the Python core community offer? IDLE is ugly, is barely an IDE, and didn’t have line numbers until a few years ago. Everyone is using PyCharm or VSCode.
        MaxBarraclough 4y ago
        NetBeans is also still going, although I don't think it has many users.
        pjmlp 4y ago
        IBM also makes Java, it offers Eclipse. Sun made Java, it offered Netbeans. As for the Python community, no one expects great tooling from FOSS languages, as you mention everyone is using tooling from two big corporations.
- papichulo2023 4y ago
  Except for all ui-only windows-only stuff.
- kaba0 4y ago
  You don’t become a first class citizen overnight. Also, last time I checked .NET lacks something as trivial as an open-source debugger.
  - Rapzid 4y ago
    It's been many moons, also there is an OSS debugger produced by Samsung.

DaiPlusPlus 4y ago

C# doesn’t really have an equivalent for Go’s channels syntax though. Also, Go doesn’t have inheritance, but does have interface forwarding and structural (as opposed to nominative) type-system - those both very significant factors that influence final program design.

jayd16 4y ago
Go literally has a Channel class with the same functionality. The major difference is async/await syntax vs goroutine syntax, no?
pharmakom 4y ago
.NET has channels as part of the standard library. In C# you must write explicit async/await keywords whereas in Go it is implicit, but the code reads almost the same. I would argue against using implementation inheritance generally and interfaces sparingly in C# anyways.
foepys 4y ago
Being not super familiar with Go, I think C#'s async/await is similar, isn't it? If you want more complex operations, you might want to look into System.IO.Pipelines.
- Rapzid 4y ago
  Nah, totally different than channels. And Goroutines are proper managed threads with their own stacks. As an aside pipelines are terriblely unergonomic. The public APIs are not fully developed and something simple, like IDK creating an actual processing pipeline, is funky as all hell. Creating a pipe wrapper feels dirty. The buffer management is cool though and sequence seems like it should have just been made a first class slice type..
  - metaltyphoon 4y ago
    C# has channels as a library and not a language construct, it lives in System.Threading.Channels namespace.

foepys 4y ago

To be fair, .NET only recently got AOT compilation and single binary (or self-contained) deployments as officially supported features.

Kwpolska 4y ago
If you target the classic .NET Framework on Windows, you could just ship a single folder for a long time The .NET Framework is shipped with Windows (though not necessarily at the latest version), and the deployment strategy for your average desktop/console app is just "copy the entire bin folder".
- foepys 4y ago
  That's true. Single file deployments were also supported in .NET Framework, only a bit obscure by registering a callback for the assembly loader and explicitly bundling every dependency as a resource in the build process.

fear91 4y ago

Writing everyday code, Go compiled binaries are on average more performant than C#.

jayd16 4y ago
Not really true. ...but the .NET runtime has a higher memory floor. It's a lot easier to write very small apps in Go. New versions are working on stripping in AOT builds but it's still very much a work in progress