5 ms·

Well, yeah. Haskell is a research language, while Java's stated design philosophy from day one has been to be conservative with adding new features, and judicio

Well, yeah. Haskell is a research language, while Java's stated design philosophy from day one has been to be conservative with adding new features, and judiciously add new features after they've proven useful in other languages.

maxbond 4y ago
To be fair though M:N threads aren't the provenance of research language, Go and Rust both have them, and I'm sure some other languages. (But it's awesome Java has them now too, other languages getting the feature earlier doesn't really devalue it.)
- kaba0 4y ago
  Rust doesn’t have them, though.
  - maxbond 4y ago
    In what way? async-std and tokio both support M:N.
    - kaba0 4y ago
      But they can’t turn blocking calls to non-blocking which is the whole point, that requires runtime support.
      - maxbond 4y ago
        Oh interesting, that's very cool, I didn't realize Java was doing that. That's a different axis than M:N though (cooperative versus preemptive) and you could definitely write a preemptive async runtime for Rust (rtic comes to mind). But the async-std and tokio runtimes are certainly cooperative. (As a note, cooperative scheduling also requires a runtime - Rust might not "have a runtime" by default but you need to opt into one to use async.)
- marginalia_nu 4y ago
  My point is that they're on diametrically opposite ends of the language-philosophical spectrum.
  - kjto 4y ago
    .net has had this feature for a decade++
    - marginalia_nu 4y ago
      Yeah, so has a lot of languages. See the previous comment.
      - kjto 4y ago
        you’re trying to support “judicious and conservative” but realistically java is on a lifeline like fortran, delphi and objectiveC
        kaba0 4y ago
        That “lifeline” is apparently the same the internet is on.
        marginalia_nu 4y ago
        What are you basing this sentiment on?
    - spuz 4y ago
      What is the virtual thread feature in .NET called? I can't find any information about it.
      - kjto 4y ago
        Tasks, simple intro here https://code-maze.com/csharp-tasks-vs-threads/ https://code-maze.com/csharp-tasks-vs-threads/
seanparsons 4y ago
So how does that make a difference to my point? The title is literally false as multiple other languages have already done it, Haskell in fact has even rewritten the underpinnings at least once the feature has been there so long.
- namdnay 4y ago
  The fact that X exists doesn't mean the "era of X" has started yet, you have to have the exponential adoption curve. The "Internet Age" started several years after the Internet was created And clearly, adding this feature to Java is going to be like putting a web browser in Windows 95

maxbond 4y ago

To be fair though M:N threads aren't the provenance of research language, Go and Rust both have them, and I'm sure some other languages. (But it's awesome Java has them now too, other languages getting the feature earlier doesn't really devalue it.)

kaba0 4y ago
Rust doesn’t have them, though.
- maxbond 4y ago
  In what way? async-std and tokio both support M:N.
  - kaba0 4y ago
    But they can’t turn blocking calls to non-blocking which is the whole point, that requires runtime support.
    - maxbond 4y ago
      Oh interesting, that's very cool, I didn't realize Java was doing that. That's a different axis than M:N though (cooperative versus preemptive) and you could definitely write a preemptive async runtime for Rust (rtic comes to mind). But the async-std and tokio runtimes are certainly cooperative. (As a note, cooperative scheduling also requires a runtime - Rust might not "have a runtime" by default but you need to opt into one to use async.)
marginalia_nu 4y ago
My point is that they're on diametrically opposite ends of the language-philosophical spectrum.
- kjto 4y ago
  .net has had this feature for a decade++
  - marginalia_nu 4y ago
    Yeah, so has a lot of languages. See the previous comment.
    - kjto 4y ago
      you’re trying to support “judicious and conservative” but realistically java is on a lifeline like fortran, delphi and objectiveC
      - kaba0 4y ago
        That “lifeline” is apparently the same the internet is on.
      - marginalia_nu 4y ago
        What are you basing this sentiment on?
  - spuz 4y ago
    What is the virtual thread feature in .NET called? I can't find any information about it.
    - kjto 4y ago
      Tasks, simple intro here https://code-maze.com/csharp-tasks-vs-threads/ https://code-maze.com/csharp-tasks-vs-threads/

seanparsons 4y ago

So how does that make a difference to my point? The title is literally false as multiple other languages have already done it, Haskell in fact has even rewritten the underpinnings at least once the feature has been there so long.

namdnay 4y ago
The fact that X exists doesn't mean the "era of X" has started yet, you have to have the exponential adoption curve. The "Internet Age" started several years after the Internet was created And clearly, adding this feature to Java is going to be like putting a web browser in Windows 95