7 ms·

People believing that masses of children are literally getting surgery, circumcision notwithstanding, is a result of a persistent campaign to cause panic. And

• the_doctah 4y ago
  It's happening regardless of the disingenous "it's not happening" claims. Here's some reading for you. There are many more examples. Cute swipe at religion though. https://www.dailymail.co.uk/health/article-11377391/Age-just-number-Video-shows-doctor-trans-clinic-Philadelphia-defends-surgery-kids.html https://www.dailymail.co.uk/health/article-11377391/Age-just...
  • klyrs 4y ago
    1. Nobody claims it's not happening at all, that's you moving the goalpost. 2. You're kinda proving my point; the Daily Mail is one of the sensationalist tabloids that were flogging the Satanic Panic bullshit back in the day.
    • the_doctah 4y ago
      >2. You're kinda proving my point; the Daily Mail is one of the sensationalist tabloids that were flogging the Satanic Panic bullshit back in the day. Show me the lies in the article instead of attacking the publisher. Bad faith argument.
• at_a_remove 4y ago
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  • Timon3 4y ago
    You just made a wild jump. Do you think hormones are a type of surgery?
    • at_a_remove 4y ago
      That's weird. I used the conjunctive and, not "hormones, a subtype of surgery." Did you read it another way by accident?
      • klyrs 4y ago
        Your parent was complaining about you shifting the goalpost from surgery to medication. They could have done so with less snark, but the complaint is fair: hormone blockers are less invasive than hormones, which are in turn less invasive than surgery. All three call for different criteria. Ignoring that difference is seen by some here as intellectually dishonest. And to answer your question, no, I believe that such matters should largely be decided between doctor and patient. I do not think that highly polarized politics should be driving medical decisions, and that medical ethics boards are much better suited to make policies in situations like this.
    • MrPatan 4y ago
      They are a type of procedure with irreversible life-altering consequences that somehow you think children can consent to.
      • heavyset_go 4y ago
        If they can't consent to this, then they can't consent to almost any surgery. They even couldn't consent to getting braces.
        • MrPatan 4y ago
          You're damn right children can't consent to anything! That is exactly the point! Which is why the parents are the ones in charge, and why it's alarming that for irreversible sterilizing and life-altering procedures they're trying to remove the parents. It's insane, as you very well put it. They can't get a tattoo, too permanent, but they can get their tits chopped off. Makes total sense, yeah.
  • watwut 4y ago
    These laws are against all of gender affirming care. They are not against surgeries specifically. Also, puberty blockers are not surgery. The way you jumped from frequent "surgeries" to "hormones" is the exact dishonest arguing people complain about.
    • at_a_remove 4y ago
      "prescribing hormones and surgery" "And" is a conjunctive word. It does not mean "the same as" or "a type of." We both know that.
      • watwut 4y ago
        The are no laws in the worst that would be specifically about surgeries for minors. They are way more expansive then that.
• transcoderx 4y ago
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  • chownie 4y ago
    Tavistock also were not performing surgeries on children. Trans people often don't even receive hormones until they're 16, I don't know how this idea that they're receiving surgery on a whim makes any sense to anyone.
    • transcoderx 4y ago
      Bullshit, 16 would be too late for hormone blockers. The blockers are also said to prevent the kids from adapting to their biological gender, leading onto a path to surgery. I am amazed how willing to lie people are in this forum.
      • chownie 4y ago
        Hormone blockers suppress the expression of estrogen and testosterone, I was very clearly referring to hormone replacement therapy. Moral of the story is, people aren't lying just because you refuse to read the words written literally on the screen.
        • transcoderx 4y ago
          I meant to say puberty blockers, not hormone blockers. Which should have been quite obvious from the context.
          • chownie 4y ago
            I think it's less obvious because you brought them up without context. Not going to walk back that accusation that I'm a liar, now you know that you were talking about something else?
      • flir 4y ago
        As a very rough rule of thumb, if it comes in pill form, it's probably not surgery.
• hoseja 4y ago
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  • chownie 4y ago
    Provide the evidence, you'll quickly find that it doesn't support the claim. No children (prepubescent) are given surgeries, a tiny minority of 16 year olds are able to receive top surgeries but the vast majority can't even get hormones until late teens.
    • account42 4y ago
      > a tiny minority of 16 year olds are able to receive top surgeries And this is supposed to be an argument for "it never happens"? You don't see a problem with confused girls who are still coming to terms with their bodies having medically unnecessary surgery to have healthy organs removed? And yes, some of them are regretting that when they grow up. Some of them are even willing to speak up. But I'm sure you will not listen.
      • Timon3 4y ago
        Many people regret surgeries and similar. Should we ban knee surgery? Hip replacements? Should teenage girls be barred from breast reduction surgery? If not, can you clearly differentiate between these cases?
        • the_doctah 4y ago
          The things you listed are physical ailments. The last time we treated mental illness with surgery, it was called a lobotomy.
          • Timon3 4y ago
            Why does it matter if it's physical or mental? People regret all those surgeries at a much, much higher rate. Incredibly few trans people do, and those that transition are much less likely to commit suicide. But I somehow get the feeling that's not a good thing for everyone.
• account42 4y ago
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  • klyrs 4y ago
    Cis/hetero-normativity is sexual ideology though. And there's a big difference between "pushing" and "accepting." I've seen a parent shun their 3-year old for playing dress-up -- "I can't love you if you do this". That's pushing gender ideology. My kid's grandparents started asking him if he has a "girlfriend" at around 4. That's pushing a sexual ideology. You don't need to be religious to buy into dogmatic misinformation campaigns, no.
    • the_doctah 4y ago
      >Cis/hetero-normativity is sexual ideology though Actually, we call it "instinct". You know, how animals know to have sex with each other and make babies. It's hilarious anyone can refer to it as ideological with a straight face. It's disingenuous.
      • klyrs 4y ago
        Rape is also "instinct." We can do better.
        • the_doctah 4y ago
          What a shit argument. If rape was instinct this world would be a lot different. But you knew that. Disingenuous.