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Name, shame, and industry blacklist Deere product managers. It's the only way. Stop acting like there's nothing that can be done.

TimTheTinker 4y ago
Good coverage of the issue by news outlets, including naming John Deere specifically, would be far more effective not only at motivating Deere to improve their practices, but also helping the populace at large to understand the problem, build popular support for good legislation, motivating legislators to deal with the problem, and motivating other companies to avoid copying Deere's example. Naming and shaming individuals (besides a CEO) within a company is unnecessary, and can cause destruction to lives, families, and communities that have nothing to do with the problem. It also overestimates the individual agency these people hold over what is most often a cultural and policy issue at a company.
vkou 4y ago
> Name, shame, and industry blacklist Deere product managers. Why would you give them that kind of free advertising? Do you think the people that hire them don't want them to behave in that way? It's like trying to shame a door-to-door salesperson for being too pushy. All you're doing is advertising that he's really good at his job. 'Name and shame' is a feel-good knee-jerk to social problems that need to be solved by legislature. There's always going to be assholes who will try to turn a quick buck by burning their reputation for a profit.
- zamnos 4y ago
  That makes me think about the sequence from Wolf of Wall St, where there's a very negative article posted about Jordan Belfort's practices, and Jordan Belfort is feeling ruined, but then the next day, the article had a positive effect on the firm's recruiting efforts. Turns out the negative attention encouraged cutthroat salesmen to join the team in the hopes of making a lot of money. What the movie fails to underscore is the attention from the SEC that the article also brought, which is what lead to his downfall. Let the assholes turn their quick buck. Karma will get them in the end. Meanwhile, the rest of us want to know who to avoid working with. If someone wants to go work for Travis Kalanick, Adam Neumann, Anthony Levandowski, or Elizabeth Holmes, they're welcome to go right ahead. I'm happier knowing their stories so I don't end up working at one of their companies.
  - vkou 4y ago
    > Karma will get them in the end. No, it won't. The universe isn't just, there's no scales that get balanced out, and people the world over have very comfortably built and kept their empires and fortunes by planting their boots firmly on the bodies of others. And fighting right-to-repair isn't even in the same league as the actually evil shit that people do.
heywhatupboys 4y ago
yea, when has lynching not been a problem. Think if all the PMs here that work for FAANG got their names leaked and harassed over software practises.

TimTheTinker 4y ago

Good coverage of the issue by news outlets, including naming John Deere specifically, would be far more effective not only at motivating Deere to improve their practices, but also helping the populace at large to understand the problem, build popular support for good legislation, motivating legislators to deal with the problem, and motivating other companies to avoid copying Deere's example. Naming and shaming individuals (besides a CEO) within a company is unnecessary, and can cause destruction to lives, families, and communities that have nothing to do with the problem. It also overestimates the individual agency these people hold over what is most often a cultural and policy issue at a company.

vkou 4y ago

> Name, shame, and industry blacklist Deere product managers. Why would you give them that kind of free advertising? Do you think the people that hire them don't want them to behave in that way? It's like trying to shame a door-to-door salesperson for being too pushy. All you're doing is advertising that he's really good at his job. 'Name and shame' is a feel-good knee-jerk to social problems that need to be solved by legislature. There's always going to be assholes who will try to turn a quick buck by burning their reputation for a profit.

zamnos 4y ago
That makes me think about the sequence from Wolf of Wall St, where there's a very negative article posted about Jordan Belfort's practices, and Jordan Belfort is feeling ruined, but then the next day, the article had a positive effect on the firm's recruiting efforts. Turns out the negative attention encouraged cutthroat salesmen to join the team in the hopes of making a lot of money. What the movie fails to underscore is the attention from the SEC that the article also brought, which is what lead to his downfall. Let the assholes turn their quick buck. Karma will get them in the end. Meanwhile, the rest of us want to know who to avoid working with. If someone wants to go work for Travis Kalanick, Adam Neumann, Anthony Levandowski, or Elizabeth Holmes, they're welcome to go right ahead. I'm happier knowing their stories so I don't end up working at one of their companies.
- vkou 4y ago
  > Karma will get them in the end. No, it won't. The universe isn't just, there's no scales that get balanced out, and people the world over have very comfortably built and kept their empires and fortunes by planting their boots firmly on the bodies of others. And fighting right-to-repair isn't even in the same league as the actually evil shit that people do.

heywhatupboys 4y ago

yea, when has lynching not been a problem. Think if all the PMs here that work for FAANG got their names leaked and harassed over software practises.