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The rebels are right-wing paramilitary groups. And Germany didn’t send any weapons during 2014-2022, but she said in a Der Spiegel interview from Oct 2022 that

The rebels are right-wing paramilitary groups. And Germany didn’t send any weapons during 2014-2022, but she said in a Der Spiegel interview from Oct 2022 that during the Minsk negotiations, it became clear that the US’ objective was to buy time to secretly arm Ukraine (which is newsworthy because this would imply a violation of the Minsk agreement).

stefan_ 4y ago
So in a year the US has sent more than Russia's yearly defence budget, yet Minsk (which one, even?) was needed to secretly (what was secret?) arm the Ukraine over 8 years? Who are the "right-wing paramilitary groups" and if they are Ukraine, since this is who you are alleging is being armed, why are they rebels if they are government-aligned?
- wunderland 4y ago
  This is all very easy stuff for you to verify for yourself and wasn’t the original point of my top comment (which was that these stories are hard to suppress without manual effort— although apparently many Americans are unaware). But to be clear, the US was funding Ukrainian rebel groups (right-wing paramilitary organizations) 2014-2022 but through clandestine means. This is much more difficult to do without the support of congress because the support has to be indirect — the funding has to be off-the-books — because this was a violation of the Minsk agreement. Since 2022, the floodgates have opened and the US is now openly sending money and weapons systems, now totaling over $100B since the Russian invasion. The Russian Defence budget is estimated to be $70-80B per year.
  - Fauntleroy 4y ago
    The gigantic key factor in all this that you're leaving out is that Ukraine is defending itself against a full-on invasion by a hostile neighbor.
  - stefan_ 4y ago
    The "CIA and the British" clandestine funding of "right-wing paramilitary Ukrainian rebel organizations" with diplomatic support from "Merkel and Macron via Minsk" is "all very easy stuff" for me to verify? "many Americans are unaware" of this story because it's nonsense that puts together various tidbits to spin a yarn long enough to envelop the world.
  - deleted 4y ago
    [deleted]
  - ianburrell 4y ago
    Which side in the conflict are you talking about? It is very unlikely that the US was funding the Russian-backed rebel groups. It is likely that they were supporting the Ukraine-supported paramilitary groups. Who are not rebels cause they were government supported and supporting.
    - wunderland 4y ago
      I think maybe you misunderstood; nobody in this thread is claiming the US has backed Russian rebel groups.
      - ianburrell 4y ago
        You literally did. The rebel paramilitaries are the Russian-backed separatists. The Ukrainian-backed paramilitaries aren't rebels because they support the government.
        wunderland 4y ago
        The paramilitaries I was referring to are these: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Category:Paramilitary_forces_of_Ukraine https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Category:Paramilitary_forces_o... Many of these are right-wing militias that have been fighting in the Donbas since 2014. Some have been absorbed into the UA national guard. I have never mentioned pro-Russia paramilitary groups; I think you and the other commenter got confused because I didn’t explicitly say Ukrainian paramilitary groups. (Thought it was obvious from context which side I was referring; obviously the CIA would not be supporting pro-Russian militias)
        ianburrell 4y ago
        The problem is you kept saying "rebel groups". "Rebel" means that they are opposed to the government. Like the separatists. Plus, you didn't answer the multiple times when asked to clarify.
        4y ago
  - CRConrad 3y ago
    > But to be clear, the US was funding Ukrainian rebel groups (right-wing paramilitary organizations) 2014-2022 but through clandestine means. You're still being UN-clear. And this far down the thread it's becoming harder and harder to believe that it is unintentional. "Ukrainian right-wing paramilitary pro-Russian 'rebel' organizations", or "Ukrainian right-wing paramilitary pro-Ukraine 'rebel' organizations"?

stefan_ 4y ago

So in a year the US has sent more than Russia's yearly defence budget, yet Minsk (which one, even?) was needed to secretly (what was secret?) arm the Ukraine over 8 years? Who are the "right-wing paramilitary groups" and if they are Ukraine, since this is who you are alleging is being armed, why are they rebels if they are government-aligned?

wunderland 4y ago
This is all very easy stuff for you to verify for yourself and wasn’t the original point of my top comment (which was that these stories are hard to suppress without manual effort— although apparently many Americans are unaware). But to be clear, the US was funding Ukrainian rebel groups (right-wing paramilitary organizations) 2014-2022 but through clandestine means. This is much more difficult to do without the support of congress because the support has to be indirect — the funding has to be off-the-books — because this was a violation of the Minsk agreement. Since 2022, the floodgates have opened and the US is now openly sending money and weapons systems, now totaling over $100B since the Russian invasion. The Russian Defence budget is estimated to be $70-80B per year.
- Fauntleroy 4y ago
  The gigantic key factor in all this that you're leaving out is that Ukraine is defending itself against a full-on invasion by a hostile neighbor.
- stefan_ 4y ago
  The "CIA and the British" clandestine funding of "right-wing paramilitary Ukrainian rebel organizations" with diplomatic support from "Merkel and Macron via Minsk" is "all very easy stuff" for me to verify? "many Americans are unaware" of this story because it's nonsense that puts together various tidbits to spin a yarn long enough to envelop the world.
- deleted 4y ago
  [deleted]
- ianburrell 4y ago
  Which side in the conflict are you talking about? It is very unlikely that the US was funding the Russian-backed rebel groups. It is likely that they were supporting the Ukraine-supported paramilitary groups. Who are not rebels cause they were government supported and supporting.
  - wunderland 4y ago
    I think maybe you misunderstood; nobody in this thread is claiming the US has backed Russian rebel groups.
    - ianburrell 4y ago
      You literally did. The rebel paramilitaries are the Russian-backed separatists. The Ukrainian-backed paramilitaries aren't rebels because they support the government.
      - wunderland 4y ago
        The paramilitaries I was referring to are these: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Category:Paramilitary_forces_of_Ukraine https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Category:Paramilitary_forces_o... Many of these are right-wing militias that have been fighting in the Donbas since 2014. Some have been absorbed into the UA national guard. I have never mentioned pro-Russia paramilitary groups; I think you and the other commenter got confused because I didn’t explicitly say Ukrainian paramilitary groups. (Thought it was obvious from context which side I was referring; obviously the CIA would not be supporting pro-Russian militias)
        ianburrell 4y ago
        The problem is you kept saying "rebel groups". "Rebel" means that they are opposed to the government. Like the separatists. Plus, you didn't answer the multiple times when asked to clarify.
        4y ago
- CRConrad 3y ago
  > But to be clear, the US was funding Ukrainian rebel groups (right-wing paramilitary organizations) 2014-2022 but through clandestine means. You're still being UN-clear. And this far down the thread it's becoming harder and harder to believe that it is unintentional. "Ukrainian right-wing paramilitary pro-Russian 'rebel' organizations", or "Ukrainian right-wing paramilitary pro-Ukraine 'rebel' organizations"?