4 ms·

Why the false dichotomy? The author seems to imply that the alternatives are 1) never touching a drop of alcohol, or 2) getting blind drunk, being incapable of

by blahedo 15y ago

Why the false dichotomy? The author seems to imply that the alternatives are 1) never touching a drop of alcohol, or 2) getting blind drunk, being incapable of controlling your actions, and blacking out. There are some good points in there about how you shouldn't "need" alcohol, and arguments against getting totally wasted, but he seems to be completely ignoring a huge, huge middle ground.

johnnyjustice 15y ago
You're completely right for some people. But alot of people think that fun can't be had without alcohol. And its catchy title. But your right, it could say simply "You don't need alcohol to have fun"
- dariusmonsef 15y ago
  The title is probably more link-baity then I really intended... and I'm sure a better writer could have some up with something that captured interest without polarizing people.
dariusmonsef 15y ago
The whole post is less about drinking and more about finding the ability to have an amazing time, any time, owned by your mental ability. If you can do that, and you don't use alcohol to get there, then that's awesome and I'm stoked for you. The post was written for people who do party hard and use alcohol to be happier/more social/funny etc.
ryanwaggoner 15y ago
For a lot of people, it's not a false dichotomy; there is no middle ground. And I'm not necessarily talking about alcoholism either (though that qualifies); the insidious thing about alcohol is that it clouds your judgement and makes abuse more likely. So you've had a few drinks and you're having fun, hanging out with friends, feeling pretty good. And then everyone is ordering another round, which is almost certainly a bad idea from a logical perspective. But you're not thinking logically anymore, so you do too. Think about it like this: how many people who drink have been drunk to the point of throwing up (and subsequently hungover) more than once or twice? Most people who drink would answer yes. And that makes zero sense; what logical person would choose to experience that misery more than once? And yet many do it almost every weekend. Because alcohol screws up your brain.
- deleted 15y ago
  [deleted]
- baddox 15y ago
  Is getting drunk enough to throw up and have a hangover inherently "abuse?" I mean, apart from the obvious "alcohol kills brain cells and causes cancer," why can't even binge drinking be done responsibly? Sure, it's not healthy, but for some it may be worth the fun, even in the long run.
- deleted 15y ago
  [deleted]
- sunahsuh 15y ago
  > the insidious thing about alcohol is that it clouds your judgement and makes abuse more likely. So you've had a few drinks and you're having fun, hanging out with friends, feeling pretty good. And then everyone is ordering another round, which is almost certainly a bad idea from a logical perspective. But you're not thinking logically anymore, so you do too. ...or you can hang out with friends who drink like responsible adults (and not like overgrown frat kids.) Excessive drinking isn't a result of alcohol consumption as much as the drinking culture in the US. We have this notion that "when people drink they act like idiots with clouded judgement," which becomes a self-fulfilling prophecy. In other countries where attitudes toward alcohol are different there's a marked difference in how people behave under the influence. Now, while you can't do a ton about the way US culture as a whole views alcohol consumption, you can make it a point to socialize with people who know how to have a good time while drinking in moderation (or influence your friends to be more responsible in the way they drink.) (More about how behavior under the influence is actually determined by our social expectations and not a characteristic of alcohol itself: http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/magazine-15265317 http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/magazine-15265317 For instance, "This basic fact has been proved time and again, not just in qualitative cross-cultural research, but also in carefully controlled scientific experiments - double-blind, placebos and all. To put it very simply, the experiments show that when people think they are drinking alcohol, they behave according to their cultural beliefs about the behavioural effects of alcohol.")
  - 15y ago
pmr_ 15y ago
The hard part is to realize that you belong to the group that cannot be on the middle ground. It took me at least 4 years to fully realize that. It is everything or nothing. Trying to keep a balance between the two extremes takes so much effort, leaves a lot of room for failure and requires to adapt patterns. The black-and-white approach is simple and effective. It does not require you to think a lot and there is not much room for error. Thinking clearly about what amount of alcohol is appropriate for you while you are actively incapacitating yourself is just very hard for some people. While I appreciate relativity and nuances it's just not worth it in this case.

by blahedo 15y ago

johnnyjustice 15y ago

You're completely right for some people. But alot of people think that fun can't be had without alcohol. And its catchy title. But your right, it could say simply "You don't need alcohol to have fun"

dariusmonsef 15y ago
The title is probably more link-baity then I really intended... and I'm sure a better writer could have some up with something that captured interest without polarizing people.

dariusmonsef 15y ago

The whole post is less about drinking and more about finding the ability to have an amazing time, any time, owned by your mental ability. If you can do that, and you don't use alcohol to get there, then that's awesome and I'm stoked for you. The post was written for people who do party hard and use alcohol to be happier/more social/funny etc.

ryanwaggoner 15y ago

For a lot of people, it's not a false dichotomy; there is no middle ground. And I'm not necessarily talking about alcoholism either (though that qualifies); the insidious thing about alcohol is that it clouds your judgement and makes abuse more likely. So you've had a few drinks and you're having fun, hanging out with friends, feeling pretty good. And then everyone is ordering another round, which is almost certainly a bad idea from a logical perspective. But you're not thinking logically anymore, so you do too. Think about it like this: how many people who drink have been drunk to the point of throwing up (and subsequently hungover) more than once or twice? Most people who drink would answer yes. And that makes zero sense; what logical person would choose to experience that misery more than once? And yet many do it almost every weekend. Because alcohol screws up your brain.

deleted 15y ago
[deleted]
baddox 15y ago
Is getting drunk enough to throw up and have a hangover inherently "abuse?" I mean, apart from the obvious "alcohol kills brain cells and causes cancer," why can't even binge drinking be done responsibly? Sure, it's not healthy, but for some it may be worth the fun, even in the long run.
deleted 15y ago
[deleted]
sunahsuh 15y ago
> the insidious thing about alcohol is that it clouds your judgement and makes abuse more likely. So you've had a few drinks and you're having fun, hanging out with friends, feeling pretty good. And then everyone is ordering another round, which is almost certainly a bad idea from a logical perspective. But you're not thinking logically anymore, so you do too. ...or you can hang out with friends who drink like responsible adults (and not like overgrown frat kids.) Excessive drinking isn't a result of alcohol consumption as much as the drinking culture in the US. We have this notion that "when people drink they act like idiots with clouded judgement," which becomes a self-fulfilling prophecy. In other countries where attitudes toward alcohol are different there's a marked difference in how people behave under the influence. Now, while you can't do a ton about the way US culture as a whole views alcohol consumption, you can make it a point to socialize with people who know how to have a good time while drinking in moderation (or influence your friends to be more responsible in the way they drink.) (More about how behavior under the influence is actually determined by our social expectations and not a characteristic of alcohol itself: http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/magazine-15265317 http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/magazine-15265317 For instance, "This basic fact has been proved time and again, not just in qualitative cross-cultural research, but also in carefully controlled scientific experiments - double-blind, placebos and all. To put it very simply, the experiments show that when people think they are drinking alcohol, they behave according to their cultural beliefs about the behavioural effects of alcohol.")
- 15y ago

pmr_ 15y ago

The hard part is to realize that you belong to the group that cannot be on the middle ground. It took me at least 4 years to fully realize that. It is everything or nothing. Trying to keep a balance between the two extremes takes so much effort, leaves a lot of room for failure and requires to adapt patterns. The black-and-white approach is simple and effective. It does not require you to think a lot and there is not much room for error. Thinking clearly about what amount of alcohol is appropriate for you while you are actively incapacitating yourself is just very hard for some people. While I appreciate relativity and nuances it's just not worth it in this case.