8 ms·

For anyone wondering, there’s no connection between the Roman Garum (a sort of fish sauce that was very common in Roman cuisine) and Garam Masala—-I believe Gar

For anyone wondering, there’s no connection between the Roman Garum (a sort of fish sauce that was very common in Roman cuisine) and Garam Masala—-I believe Garam simply means ‘hot’ (as in ‘hot spice’) in Hindi, and so bears no etymological history with Rome.

whydoyoucare 3y ago
Thanks, and yes, the title caught me off guard until I realized it was fish sauce as opposed to the hot spice (garam masala).
- pklausler 3y ago
  I wonder what was used for "hot spices" in pre-Columbian Indian cuisine, or whether the term even existed before the introduction of chili peppers.
  - om42 3y ago
    Its been a while since I last went into a deep dive about this, but i think the term did exist before. Black pepper, other spices, as well as ginger or garlic can add "heat" to a dish without chili peppers.
    - denton-scratch 3y ago
      Chilli retains its heat during cooking. Peppercorns and mustard don't; if you want to use them for heat, add them at the end of cooking. I don't mean "heat" in the ayurvedic sense, I just mean in terms of the burning sensation on the palate.
      - ithkuil 3y ago
        English has so many words, and yet it doesn't have a separate word for the spicy hotness that cannot be confused with heat?
        OJFord 3y ago
        There's 'spicy', but then it can also be ambiguous (unless your tolerance is really low) with something that is full of flavourful spice notes but without the, er, heat. I'm not sure Hindi does either though? Garam is certainly ambiguous.
        superice 3y ago
        It seems to be because the sensation induced in the mouth is literally that of heat. I remember Adam Ragusea on his excellent YouTube channel pointing out that capsaicin makes the mouth much more sensitive to temperature. So funnily enough, the sensation of something being too hot temperature-wise, and something being spicy is pretty much the same thing. It's also why cold water seems to help for a bit, but does nothing to eliminate the effects of the capsaicin as opposed to something like milk.
        ithkuil 3y ago
        Perhaps that's an example where the word you use affects the experience you feel. In Italian it's "piccante" which comes from archaic "piccare" "to sting". And to me, chili pepper sting and punch more than give me a feeling of heat
        denton-scratch 3y ago
        It's funny; the ambiguity of English "hot" makes it difficult to even think clearly about the different kinds of hotness. Ginger and garlic can produce similar sensations of hotness to what you get with chilli; I sometimes make a Nepalese-style lamb "curry" that has no chilli or pepper in it. It's very mild, but you could be forgiven for thinking it's flavoured with chilli.
        ta8903 3y ago
        They don't need it because white people don't spice they food.
      - throwaway2037 3y ago
        Fresh peppercorns certainly retain their heat during cooking. They are occasionally used in Thai stir-fries. If you eat enough, you will get crazy effects 4-12 hours later: The palms of your hands and bottom of your feet will tingle. It's wild. Also, chillis lose some heat with cooking. Again: From Thai cooking, fresh chillis are used sparingly as a topping, but Bird's Eye chillis can be used in a stir fry enough to kill a small child (joke, but they can use a lot).
  - andrewmutz 3y ago
    I don't know what pre-Columbian indian cooking was like, but black pepper can provide some kick and is native to south west india
  - howinteresting 3y ago
    It was mostly black pepper. New World spices and vegetables revolutionized Indian cooking, like it did most other Old World cuisines.
  - nraf 3y ago
    Long pepper would have been another one. Related and similar in taste to black pepper, though perhaps a bit more complex in flavor.
  - chupchap 3y ago
    Black pepper and pepper long existed and was used extensively.
  - bandrami 3y ago
    Black pepper, mustard, horseradish/wasabi, and asafoetida
  - scheme271 3y ago
    Sichuan peppercorns along with the other stuff mentioned (black pepper, long pepper, mustard, etc)
bigbillheck 3y ago
> so bears no etymological history with Rome It still appears to be, ultimately, Indo-European and cognate with English 'warm', among others: https://en.wiktionary.org/wiki/Reconstruction:Proto-Indo-European/gʷʰer- https://en.wiktionary.org/wiki/Reconstruction:Proto-Indo-Eur...
- akavi 3y ago
  Oddly enough, though that root does produce "fermentum", "garum" seems to be etymologically unlinked.
abdullahkhalids 3y ago
Garam masala is a blend of spices that are lightly roasted. The "garam"/hot refers to this roasting.
- yumraj 3y ago
  > Garam masala is a blend of spices that are lightly roasted. The "garam"/hot refers to this roasting. That is incorrect. Garam does indeed mean hot, but individual spices in garama masala don't need to be roasted, in fact I believe most, if not all, of them are not roasted, rather simply ground together. The garam refers to the taseer (in Ayurvedic terms) of the spice blend, as in is it cooling (such as fennel is cooling), or is it warm (such as black pepper is warm/hot) to the body. Almost all, if not all, of the ingredients of garam masala are warming to the body.
  - manish_gill 3y ago
    On the question of roasted vs not: I believe they simply need to be _dry_. Typically this can be achieved by either soaking the individual spices out in the heat, or a partial roast.
  - davchana 3y ago
    Yes, correct. Just to add, things with hot taseer are recommended to be eaten in winter, to stay warm (not temperature wise), and cool things in summer. One of my childhood memories is eating a lot of mangoes (which is hot) in one sitting in summer (which is when mangoes are available), and them getting nose bleed (because its hot). Worth it :)
    - HDMI_Cable 3y ago
      I'm curious: is there any correlation between the perceived spiciness of a blend and the taseer, or is the designation based moreso on observations on when it is appropriate to eat them (e.g., someone noticed that it was better to eat something in winter, or people tended to eat something in winter and so designated the spice as having high taseer)?
Tronno 3y ago
Surely this is intended as a pun.
Gordonjcp 3y ago
Garam Masala isn't hot as in spicy hot though.

whydoyoucare 3y ago

Thanks, and yes, the title caught me off guard until I realized it was fish sauce as opposed to the hot spice (garam masala).

pklausler 3y ago
I wonder what was used for "hot spices" in pre-Columbian Indian cuisine, or whether the term even existed before the introduction of chili peppers.
- om42 3y ago
  Its been a while since I last went into a deep dive about this, but i think the term did exist before. Black pepper, other spices, as well as ginger or garlic can add "heat" to a dish without chili peppers.
  - denton-scratch 3y ago
    Chilli retains its heat during cooking. Peppercorns and mustard don't; if you want to use them for heat, add them at the end of cooking. I don't mean "heat" in the ayurvedic sense, I just mean in terms of the burning sensation on the palate.
    - ithkuil 3y ago
      English has so many words, and yet it doesn't have a separate word for the spicy hotness that cannot be confused with heat?
      - OJFord 3y ago
        There's 'spicy', but then it can also be ambiguous (unless your tolerance is really low) with something that is full of flavourful spice notes but without the, er, heat. I'm not sure Hindi does either though? Garam is certainly ambiguous.
      - superice 3y ago
        It seems to be because the sensation induced in the mouth is literally that of heat. I remember Adam Ragusea on his excellent YouTube channel pointing out that capsaicin makes the mouth much more sensitive to temperature. So funnily enough, the sensation of something being too hot temperature-wise, and something being spicy is pretty much the same thing. It's also why cold water seems to help for a bit, but does nothing to eliminate the effects of the capsaicin as opposed to something like milk.
        ithkuil 3y ago
        Perhaps that's an example where the word you use affects the experience you feel. In Italian it's "piccante" which comes from archaic "piccare" "to sting". And to me, chili pepper sting and punch more than give me a feeling of heat
      - denton-scratch 3y ago
        It's funny; the ambiguity of English "hot" makes it difficult to even think clearly about the different kinds of hotness. Ginger and garlic can produce similar sensations of hotness to what you get with chilli; I sometimes make a Nepalese-style lamb "curry" that has no chilli or pepper in it. It's very mild, but you could be forgiven for thinking it's flavoured with chilli.
      - ta8903 3y ago
        They don't need it because white people don't spice they food.
    - throwaway2037 3y ago
      Fresh peppercorns certainly retain their heat during cooking. They are occasionally used in Thai stir-fries. If you eat enough, you will get crazy effects 4-12 hours later: The palms of your hands and bottom of your feet will tingle. It's wild. Also, chillis lose some heat with cooking. Again: From Thai cooking, fresh chillis are used sparingly as a topping, but Bird's Eye chillis can be used in a stir fry enough to kill a small child (joke, but they can use a lot).
- andrewmutz 3y ago
  I don't know what pre-Columbian indian cooking was like, but black pepper can provide some kick and is native to south west india
- howinteresting 3y ago
  It was mostly black pepper. New World spices and vegetables revolutionized Indian cooking, like it did most other Old World cuisines.
- nraf 3y ago
  Long pepper would have been another one. Related and similar in taste to black pepper, though perhaps a bit more complex in flavor.
- chupchap 3y ago
  Black pepper and pepper long existed and was used extensively.
- bandrami 3y ago
  Black pepper, mustard, horseradish/wasabi, and asafoetida
- scheme271 3y ago
  Sichuan peppercorns along with the other stuff mentioned (black pepper, long pepper, mustard, etc)

bigbillheck 3y ago

> so bears no etymological history with Rome It still appears to be, ultimately, Indo-European and cognate with English 'warm', among others: https://en.wiktionary.org/wiki/Reconstruction:Proto-Indo-European/gʷʰer- https://en.wiktionary.org/wiki/Reconstruction:Proto-Indo-Eur...

akavi 3y ago
Oddly enough, though that root does produce "fermentum", "garum" seems to be etymologically unlinked.

abdullahkhalids 3y ago

Garam masala is a blend of spices that are lightly roasted. The "garam"/hot refers to this roasting.

yumraj 3y ago
> Garam masala is a blend of spices that are lightly roasted. The "garam"/hot refers to this roasting. That is incorrect. Garam does indeed mean hot, but individual spices in garama masala don't need to be roasted, in fact I believe most, if not all, of them are not roasted, rather simply ground together. The garam refers to the taseer (in Ayurvedic terms) of the spice blend, as in is it cooling (such as fennel is cooling), or is it warm (such as black pepper is warm/hot) to the body. Almost all, if not all, of the ingredients of garam masala are warming to the body.
- manish_gill 3y ago
  On the question of roasted vs not: I believe they simply need to be _dry_. Typically this can be achieved by either soaking the individual spices out in the heat, or a partial roast.
- davchana 3y ago
  Yes, correct. Just to add, things with hot taseer are recommended to be eaten in winter, to stay warm (not temperature wise), and cool things in summer. One of my childhood memories is eating a lot of mangoes (which is hot) in one sitting in summer (which is when mangoes are available), and them getting nose bleed (because its hot). Worth it :)
  - HDMI_Cable 3y ago
    I'm curious: is there any correlation between the perceived spiciness of a blend and the taseer, or is the designation based moreso on observations on when it is appropriate to eat them (e.g., someone noticed that it was better to eat something in winter, or people tended to eat something in winter and so designated the spice as having high taseer)?

Tronno 3y ago

Surely this is intended as a pun.

Gordonjcp 3y ago

Garam Masala isn't hot as in spicy hot though.