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Dude, you don't need high tech to slaughter the innocent, any fool can do that. What gold-plated weapons systems do is credibly deter a Chinese landing force fr

Dude, you don't need high tech to slaughter the innocent, any fool can do that. What gold-plated weapons systems do is credibly deter a Chinese landing force from showing up in Taipei, or help the Ukranians achieve the 5+ K/D ratios they need to survive as an independent nation. I'd be happier to know that my code would let a shaped charge target a J20 cockpit in the unlikely event of Really Bad Decision Making, than to know that it was targeting teenage girls with contagious mental illness. On the other hand, I can give you plenty of reasons not to work in defense. They don't pay enough for you to ever own a house in a desirable place; security clearances are an invasive relic of the J. Edgar Hoover days (and your sensitive data will get hacked by China anyway); it's assumed that you don't know "foreign persons" (hint: This is actually now a mark of the lower-class and uneducated.); a software engineer without an advanced degree is basically nobody; cloud stuff is mostly off limits; work may happen in windowless rooms; perks are non-existent; and it's embarrassing to answer "so what do you do for a living" if you're trying to exist in blue-state society. But ethics? Compared to FAANG? I wouldn't worry about that.

kika 4y ago
> But ethics? Compared to FAANG? I wouldn't worry about that. Caught myself clicking upvote 100500 times. Index finger hurts
jwestbury 4y ago
> They don't pay enough for you to ever own a house in a desirable place; I know plenty of people who took pay cuts to work in cleared jobs at Amazon, Microsoft, and Google. If you're talented, you can make a lot in the defense and intelligence community. > and your sensitive data will get hacked by China anyway Hacked? No. Most sensitive data is kept on air-gapped networks. Not really hackable. Can be exfiltrated, sure, but that's part of the point of the extensive background checks. > it's assumed that you don't know "foreign persons" (hint: This is actually now a mark of the lower-class and uneducated.) Not even remotely true. You do have to report contacts you know to be non-US citizens, but that's not disqualifying. I knew someone who filled out over 200 pages of foreign contact forms, and still obtained TS/SCI clearance. > a software engineer without an advanced degree is basically nobody Not accurate. Most people I knew in the cleared space didn't even have computer science degrees; most of us had bachelor's degrees in unrelated subjects, many even non-STEM (several history/English degrees). > cloud stuff is mostly off limits Somewhat true, but surely you're aware of AWS and Azure building out substantial private clouds for intelligence and defense customers? > work may happen in windowless rooms Rarely. Most SCIFs have windows, in my experience. > perks are non-existent Depends on the employer. But sure. > and it's embarrassing to answer "so what do you do for a living" if you're trying to exist in blue-state society. I did cleared work in Seattle. I don't think I've ever voted Republican. I've voted Green on a number of occasions. Same story for most of my coworkers. The most left-leaning people I know never had an issue with my job. I think there are two ways of thinking about this: First, your presence there means someone more conservative isn't there, and you can maybe effect some small change. Second, any job at a sufficiently large corporation is ultimately killing people, even if indirectly; there's no way you can work to enrich billionaires at the expense of the working class and feel like you're contributing to the net good of society unless you're engaging in some serious cognitive dissonance. At least, IMO.
- lozaning 4y ago
  May wanna double check that OOPM cant be hacked
gautamdivgi 4y ago
I don’t know about the foreign persons ;) - being a naturalized citizen there are plenty of foreign citizens the wife and me know. They pay decently though but not big tech level pay. You definitely can’t answer the what you’re working on question. We live in Illinois and there’s plenty of people around us who work at the same place.

kika 4y ago

> But ethics? Compared to FAANG? I wouldn't worry about that. Caught myself clicking upvote 100500 times. Index finger hurts

jwestbury 4y ago

> They don't pay enough for you to ever own a house in a desirable place; I know plenty of people who took pay cuts to work in cleared jobs at Amazon, Microsoft, and Google. If you're talented, you can make a lot in the defense and intelligence community. > and your sensitive data will get hacked by China anyway Hacked? No. Most sensitive data is kept on air-gapped networks. Not really hackable. Can be exfiltrated, sure, but that's part of the point of the extensive background checks. > it's assumed that you don't know "foreign persons" (hint: This is actually now a mark of the lower-class and uneducated.) Not even remotely true. You do have to report contacts you know to be non-US citizens, but that's not disqualifying. I knew someone who filled out over 200 pages of foreign contact forms, and still obtained TS/SCI clearance. > a software engineer without an advanced degree is basically nobody Not accurate. Most people I knew in the cleared space didn't even have computer science degrees; most of us had bachelor's degrees in unrelated subjects, many even non-STEM (several history/English degrees). > cloud stuff is mostly off limits Somewhat true, but surely you're aware of AWS and Azure building out substantial private clouds for intelligence and defense customers? > work may happen in windowless rooms Rarely. Most SCIFs have windows, in my experience. > perks are non-existent Depends on the employer. But sure. > and it's embarrassing to answer "so what do you do for a living" if you're trying to exist in blue-state society. I did cleared work in Seattle. I don't think I've ever voted Republican. I've voted Green on a number of occasions. Same story for most of my coworkers. The most left-leaning people I know never had an issue with my job. I think there are two ways of thinking about this: First, your presence there means someone more conservative isn't there, and you can maybe effect some small change. Second, any job at a sufficiently large corporation is ultimately killing people, even if indirectly; there's no way you can work to enrich billionaires at the expense of the working class and feel like you're contributing to the net good of society unless you're engaging in some serious cognitive dissonance. At least, IMO.

lozaning 4y ago
May wanna double check that OOPM cant be hacked

gautamdivgi 4y ago

I don’t know about the foreign persons ;) - being a naturalized citizen there are plenty of foreign citizens the wife and me know. They pay decently though but not big tech level pay. You definitely can’t answer the what you’re working on question. We live in Illinois and there’s plenty of people around us who work at the same place.