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> Design is not just one thing or another. It happens at each layer. I think we are in agreement. "How it works" is design. "How it looks" is also design. Some

> Design is not just one thing or another. It happens at each layer. I think we are in agreement. "How it works" is design. "How it looks" is also design. Sometimes, but not usually, one person may be able to do both types of design.

esafak 4y ago
UX vs UI
- illiarian 4y ago
  I wish that whoever made this "distinction" never made it. Because now people just blindly repeat this, and it makes no sense. UI (user interface) is a part of UX (user *experience).
  - esafak 4y ago
    UX often involves research and customer interaction. UI is more straight up visual design, informed by the UX research. The same person might not do both. Do you think they should?
    - illiarian 4y ago
      Yes. Yes, they should. A person who does UI and doesn't have first-hand experience on what customers want and do is not a UI designer. That person is a dribbble illustrator.
      - doctor_eval 4y ago
        I remember clearly the first time I ever heard the term “UX”. It was condescending explained by some guy from Google to a quite technical audience of telcos, many years ago. For reasons I couldn’t explain, it pissed me off. Later, they produced Material Design. The prosecution rests, your honour.
        esafak 4y ago
        What do you think the best design system today is?
        illiarian 4y ago
        - https://design-system.service.gov.uk/ https://design-system.service.gov.uk/ - https://bbc.github.io/gel/ https://bbc.github.io/gel/ - (not strictly design system s) https://every-layout.dev/ https://every-layout.dev/ and https://book.inclusive-components.design/ https://book.inclusive-components.design/ These are by people whose primary goal isn't promotions, keynotes or CVs. Tailwind also does a decent job with both the framework itself and the commercial UI examples: https://tailwindui.com/ https://tailwindui.com/
    - doctor_eval 4y ago
      Apple famously did many years of intense user testing to develop their HIG (and maybe still do?). I’m pretty sure xerox did too, and all the other UI researchers many years ago. Maybe even Microsoft did :) In any case, it contradicts your claim, since all this user research was way, way before UX was a thing. Honestly I just got the feeling that the phrase UI had become stale and UX was just seen as a way for a new generation to put their mark on the world. Nothing wrong with that, of course.
      - illiarian 4y ago
        Apple HIG from 1987 and 1985 (mini-thread): https://twitter.com/andy_matuschak/status/1447407671850590209 https://twitter.com/andy_matuschak/status/144740767185059020... The 1985 edition "includes e.g. case studies (useful!), and an extended discussion of Jung's theories of intuition and how they should influence your designs (!!)"

esafak 4y ago

UX vs UI

illiarian 4y ago
I wish that whoever made this "distinction" never made it. Because now people just blindly repeat this, and it makes no sense. UI (user interface) is a part of UX (user *experience).
- esafak 4y ago
  UX often involves research and customer interaction. UI is more straight up visual design, informed by the UX research. The same person might not do both. Do you think they should?
  - illiarian 4y ago
    Yes. Yes, they should. A person who does UI and doesn't have first-hand experience on what customers want and do is not a UI designer. That person is a dribbble illustrator.
    - doctor_eval 4y ago
      I remember clearly the first time I ever heard the term “UX”. It was condescending explained by some guy from Google to a quite technical audience of telcos, many years ago. For reasons I couldn’t explain, it pissed me off. Later, they produced Material Design. The prosecution rests, your honour.
      - esafak 4y ago
        What do you think the best design system today is?
        illiarian 4y ago
        - https://design-system.service.gov.uk/ https://design-system.service.gov.uk/ - https://bbc.github.io/gel/ https://bbc.github.io/gel/ - (not strictly design system s) https://every-layout.dev/ https://every-layout.dev/ and https://book.inclusive-components.design/ https://book.inclusive-components.design/ These are by people whose primary goal isn't promotions, keynotes or CVs. Tailwind also does a decent job with both the framework itself and the commercial UI examples: https://tailwindui.com/ https://tailwindui.com/
  - doctor_eval 4y ago
    Apple famously did many years of intense user testing to develop their HIG (and maybe still do?). I’m pretty sure xerox did too, and all the other UI researchers many years ago. Maybe even Microsoft did :) In any case, it contradicts your claim, since all this user research was way, way before UX was a thing. Honestly I just got the feeling that the phrase UI had become stale and UX was just seen as a way for a new generation to put their mark on the world. Nothing wrong with that, of course.
    - illiarian 4y ago
      Apple HIG from 1987 and 1985 (mini-thread): https://twitter.com/andy_matuschak/status/1447407671850590209 https://twitter.com/andy_matuschak/status/144740767185059020... The 1985 edition "includes e.g. case studies (useful!), and an extended discussion of Jung's theories of intuition and how they should influence your designs (!!)"