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>would you rely on the ambulance driver's judgement to decide if you need the $10k ride to hospital? $10k for an ambulance ride? Is there any documentation fo

>would you rely on the ambulance driver's judgement to decide if you need the $10k ride to hospital? $10k for an ambulance ride? Is there any documentation for that claim, or is it just hyperbole? According to the San Francisco Fire Department[0], an ambulance ride is ~$2400 (which includes lifesaving services), plus $46/mile[1.61km]. By my calculation, an ambulance would need to transport a patient ~165 miles (266km) to make an ambulance ride cost $10k. For some perspective, It's ~160 miles from San Francisco to Fresno[1]. I'd expect that San Francisco EMTs don't deliver patients to Fresno, or even outside the San Francisco city limits[2]. Since San Francisco is 46.9 sq miles (121 sq km) in area, a $10k ambulance ride is incredibly unlikely at best. N.B: I do not live in the Bay Area. It took less than 30 seconds to confirm the costs above via DDG. Not sure how GP (and others) came up with a number 400% higher. [0] https://sf-fire.org/services/ambulance-billing https://sf-fire.org/services/ambulance-billing [1] https://www.distancecalculator.net/ https://www.distancecalculator.net/ [2] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nota_bene https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nota_bene Edit: Added Nota Bene[2].

teachrdan 4y ago
This comment is hopelessly obtuse. Most Americans can't even afford a $1000 emergency expense; the $2400 expense you cite is already unaffordable. Add in any ER fees the hospital charges -- which can easily be part of what GP refers to -- and you'll probably get to that $10K figure anyway. Don't believe me? Here's what happened right here in SF when a bicyclist with a broken arm was taken to the local public hospital, SF General: "A few months later, Dang got a bill for $24,074.50. Premera Blue Cross, her health insurer, would only cover $3,830.79 of that — an amount that it thought was fair for the services provided. That left Dang with $20,243.71 to pay, which the hospital threatened to send to collections in mid-December." > came up with a number 400% higher. A moment with a calculator would show you that the number GP uses is 300% higher, not 400% :) https://fortune.com/recommends/banking/57-percent-of-americans-cant-afford-a-1000-emergency-expense/ https://fortune.com/recommends/banking/57-percent-of-america... https://www.vox.com/policy-and-politics/2019/1/7/18137967/er-bills-zuckerberg-san-francisco-general-hospital https://www.vox.com/policy-and-politics/2019/1/7/18137967/er...
- nobody9999 4y ago
  >This comment is hopelessly obtuse. Most Americans can't even afford a $1000 emergency expense; the $2400 expense you cite is already unaffordable. Add in any ER fees the hospital charges -- which can easily be part of what GP refers to -- and you'll probably get to that $10K figure anyway. I didn't say there weren't problems with the system, or that most folks (let alone homeless folks) could afford such things, but 400% more than the published cost? That's hyperbolic and, more importantly, incredibly imprecise. I see you disagree with that. I agree that you disagree with me. Have a lovely day. Edit: removed extraneous text.
  - handoflixue 4y ago
    > That's hyperbolic and, more importantly, incredibly imprecise. In common USA English, use of a figure like "10K" suggests imprecision - it's a magnitude of order ballpark, a gesture at the logarithmic scale. This convention is useful because it's easy to remember a rough ballpark, but precise figures are going to quickly get muddied in details. It seems strange to complain about imprecision when someone has already clearly indicated that they're talking about a rough estimate.
    - nobody9999 4y ago
      >In common USA English, use of a figure like "10K" suggests imprecision - it's a magnitude of order ballpark, a gesture at the logarithmic scale. Really? As a life-long resident of the US, native US English speaker, and the child of a native US English speaker and a long-time resident of the US from another English-speaking country (UK) (both with post-baccalaureate degrees), I never heard that from anyone except you. Not teachers in primary or secondary school, nor in college. Nor have I seen that in any of the many usage guides I've read over the past half-century or so. Yes, "Forty days" in the Abrahamic[0] tradition is meant to be imprecise (i.e., meaning "a long time"), but the bible/torah/quran aren't guides to modern English, are they? Perhaps you could enlighten this American ignoramus as to the correctness of US English idiomatic phrasing in this light. It would be most appreciated. [0] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Abrahamic_religions https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Abrahamic_religions Edit: Clarified prose.
Balooga 4y ago
That's for services rendered by the SFFD. But there are plenty of private ambulance companies that charge whatever they charge. You don't get to say "no thank you" if you are unconscious. For example, when my family were involved in a car crash on the freeway in Los Angeles some years ago, even though the local fire department arrived at the scene within minutes, their paramedics did not. My two kids were taken to hospital in separate private ambulances. $6k each.

teachrdan 4y ago

This comment is hopelessly obtuse. Most Americans can't even afford a $1000 emergency expense; the $2400 expense you cite is already unaffordable. Add in any ER fees the hospital charges -- which can easily be part of what GP refers to -- and you'll probably get to that $10K figure anyway. Don't believe me? Here's what happened right here in SF when a bicyclist with a broken arm was taken to the local public hospital, SF General: "A few months later, Dang got a bill for $24,074.50. Premera Blue Cross, her health insurer, would only cover $3,830.79 of that — an amount that it thought was fair for the services provided. That left Dang with $20,243.71 to pay, which the hospital threatened to send to collections in mid-December." > came up with a number 400% higher. A moment with a calculator would show you that the number GP uses is 300% higher, not 400% :) https://fortune.com/recommends/banking/57-percent-of-americans-cant-afford-a-1000-emergency-expense/ https://fortune.com/recommends/banking/57-percent-of-america... https://www.vox.com/policy-and-politics/2019/1/7/18137967/er-bills-zuckerberg-san-francisco-general-hospital https://www.vox.com/policy-and-politics/2019/1/7/18137967/er...

nobody9999 4y ago
>This comment is hopelessly obtuse. Most Americans can't even afford a $1000 emergency expense; the $2400 expense you cite is already unaffordable. Add in any ER fees the hospital charges -- which can easily be part of what GP refers to -- and you'll probably get to that $10K figure anyway. I didn't say there weren't problems with the system, or that most folks (let alone homeless folks) could afford such things, but 400% more than the published cost? That's hyperbolic and, more importantly, incredibly imprecise. I see you disagree with that. I agree that you disagree with me. Have a lovely day. Edit: removed extraneous text.
- handoflixue 4y ago
  > That's hyperbolic and, more importantly, incredibly imprecise. In common USA English, use of a figure like "10K" suggests imprecision - it's a magnitude of order ballpark, a gesture at the logarithmic scale. This convention is useful because it's easy to remember a rough ballpark, but precise figures are going to quickly get muddied in details. It seems strange to complain about imprecision when someone has already clearly indicated that they're talking about a rough estimate.
  - nobody9999 4y ago
    >In common USA English, use of a figure like "10K" suggests imprecision - it's a magnitude of order ballpark, a gesture at the logarithmic scale. Really? As a life-long resident of the US, native US English speaker, and the child of a native US English speaker and a long-time resident of the US from another English-speaking country (UK) (both with post-baccalaureate degrees), I never heard that from anyone except you. Not teachers in primary or secondary school, nor in college. Nor have I seen that in any of the many usage guides I've read over the past half-century or so. Yes, "Forty days" in the Abrahamic[0] tradition is meant to be imprecise (i.e., meaning "a long time"), but the bible/torah/quran aren't guides to modern English, are they? Perhaps you could enlighten this American ignoramus as to the correctness of US English idiomatic phrasing in this light. It would be most appreciated. [0] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Abrahamic_religions https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Abrahamic_religions Edit: Clarified prose.

Balooga 4y ago

That's for services rendered by the SFFD. But there are plenty of private ambulance companies that charge whatever they charge. You don't get to say "no thank you" if you are unconscious. For example, when my family were involved in a car crash on the freeway in Los Angeles some years ago, even though the local fire department arrived at the scene within minutes, their paramedics did not. My two kids were taken to hospital in separate private ambulances. $6k each.