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>no machine translation system currently in existence could translate the 逆転裁判 games to Ace Attorney games Maybe it's already in the training set, but GPT-4 do

by AlanYx 4y ago

>no machine translation system currently in existence could translate the 逆転裁判 games to Ace Attorney games Maybe it's already in the training set, but GPT-4 does give that exact translation. I've found that GPT-4 is exceptionally good at translating idioms and other big picture translation issues. Where it occasionally makes mistakes is with small grammatical and word order issues that previous tools do tend to get right.

wizzwizz4 4y ago
> Maybe it's already in the training set, but GPT-4 does give that exact translation. The corpus includes Wikipedia, so yes, it's in there. That's the kind of thing I'd expect it to be good at, along with idioms, when the model gets large enough. I meant that no machine translation system could translate the games. Thanks to an early localisation decision, you have to do more than just translate words into words for this series, making it a hard problem: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Phoenix_Wright:_Ace_Attorney https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Phoenix_Wright:_Ace_Attorney > While the original version of the game takes place in Japan, the localization is set in the United States; this became an issue when localizing later games, where the Japanese setting was more obvious. Among other things, translators have to choose which Japanese elements to keep and which to replace with US equivalents, while maintaining internal consistency with the localisation decisions of previous games. Doing a good job requires more than just linguistic competence: there's nothing you could put in the corpus to give a GPT-style system the ability to perform this task.
numpad0 4y ago
Can you try this[0]? I have no access to the -4... Have you actually used GPT-4 for translation? Seriously all this talk about only getting explicit meaning across would be easily dispelled in an afternoon if you only bothered to try. Bing Chat: GPT-4を翻訳に使用したことがありますか？本当に明示的な意味しか伝えられないという話は、試してみれば午後には簡単に反証できます。 (Have you utilized GPT-4 for translations? The story that only really explicit meaning can be conveyed, can be easily disproved by afternoon if tried.) Google: 実際にGPT-4を翻訳に使ったことはありますか? 真剣に、明示的な意味だけを理解することについてのこのすべての話は、あなたが試してみるだけなら、午後には簡単に払拭されるでしょう. (Have you actually used GPT-4 for translation? Seriously, This stories of all about understanding solely explicit meanings are, if it is only for you to try, will be easily swept away by afternoon.) DeepL: 実際にGPT-4を使って翻訳したことがあるのですか？明示的な意味しか伝わらないという話は、やってみようと思えば、午後には簡単に払拭されるはずです。 (Do you have experience of actually translating using GPT-4? The story that only explicit meaning is conveyed, if so desired, can be easily swept away by afternoon) If I'd do it: GPT-4を翻訳に使ったことがあって言ってる? 真面目に言って、表層的な意味しか取れないとかないって暇な時にやってみれば分かると思うんだけど。 (Are you saying having used GPT-4 for translation? Seriously speaking, I think that it only gets superficial meaning isn't [true] if [you] would try [it] when [you'd] have time.) 0: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=35530380 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=35530380
- redox99 4y ago
  GPT4 実際にGPT-4を翻訳に使ったことがありますか？本当に、明示的な意味だけを伝えるという話が、試してみるだけで簡単に解決できるなんて、冗談じゃないですか。
  - numpad0 4y ago
    WHAT. It's got the second half wrong. Google: Have you actually used GPT-4 for translation? Really, it's a joke that the story of only conveying explicit meaning can be easily solved by just trying. DeepL: Have you actually used GPT-4 for translation? Really, it's a joke that all this talk about conveying only explicit meaning can be easily solved by just trying it out. Mine: Have you actually used GPT-4 for translations? That you can really just, try and easily solve that story that to convey explicit meaning, is such a joke.
    - redox99 4y ago
      Here's a couple more from GPT4 (since it's random every time because of temperature) GPT-4を翻訳に実際に使ったことがありますか？本気で、伝えたい意味だけを伝えるという話は、ちょっと試してみれば簡単に解決できると思うのですが。実際にGPT-4を翻訳に使ったことがありますか？本当に、試してみるだけで簡単に払拭できると思うのに、この「明確な意味だけが伝わる」話ばかりで。
      - numpad0 4y ago
        本気で、伝えたい意味だけを伝えるという話は、ちょっと試してみれば簡単に解決できると思うのですが。 "In seriousness, I think the story that [subject] tells the meaning [it/he/they] wants to tell, should be easily solvable by trying a bit." or "Seriously, the story of telling the meaning [subject] wants to tell, should be easily solvable by trying a bit." 本当に、試してみるだけで簡単に払拭できると思うのに、この「明確な意味だけが伝わる」話ばかりで。 "Really, I think it'll be easily swept away by just trying, but there are so much of this 'only clear meaning is conveyed' stories." I'm almost feeling that GPT-4 should be eligible for human rights, especially astonishing that they dropped explicit specification of "afternoon" that don't work well. But also interesting it's failing to keep the intent of the whole sentence unlike 3.5 and even more primitive NN translation engines.
        4y ago

by AlanYx 4y ago

wizzwizz4 4y ago

> Maybe it's already in the training set, but GPT-4 does give that exact translation. The corpus includes Wikipedia, so yes, it's in there. That's the kind of thing I'd expect it to be good at, along with idioms, when the model gets large enough. I meant that no machine translation system could translate the games. Thanks to an early localisation decision, you have to do more than just translate words into words for this series, making it a hard problem: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Phoenix_Wright:_Ace_Attorney https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Phoenix_Wright:_Ace_Attorney > While the original version of the game takes place in Japan, the localization is set in the United States; this became an issue when localizing later games, where the Japanese setting was more obvious. Among other things, translators have to choose which Japanese elements to keep and which to replace with US equivalents, while maintaining internal consistency with the localisation decisions of previous games. Doing a good job requires more than just linguistic competence: there's nothing you could put in the corpus to give a GPT-style system the ability to perform this task.

numpad0 4y ago

Can you try this[0]? I have no access to the -4... Have you actually used GPT-4 for translation? Seriously all this talk about only getting explicit meaning across would be easily dispelled in an afternoon if you only bothered to try. Bing Chat: GPT-4を翻訳に使用したことがありますか？本当に明示的な意味しか伝えられないという話は、試してみれば午後には簡単に反証できます。 (Have you utilized GPT-4 for translations? The story that only really explicit meaning can be conveyed, can be easily disproved by afternoon if tried.) Google: 実際にGPT-4を翻訳に使ったことはありますか? 真剣に、明示的な意味だけを理解することについてのこのすべての話は、あなたが試してみるだけなら、午後には簡単に払拭されるでしょう. (Have you actually used GPT-4 for translation? Seriously, This stories of all about understanding solely explicit meanings are, if it is only for you to try, will be easily swept away by afternoon.) DeepL: 実際にGPT-4を使って翻訳したことがあるのですか？明示的な意味しか伝わらないという話は、やってみようと思えば、午後には簡単に払拭されるはずです。 (Do you have experience of actually translating using GPT-4? The story that only explicit meaning is conveyed, if so desired, can be easily swept away by afternoon) If I'd do it: GPT-4を翻訳に使ったことがあって言ってる? 真面目に言って、表層的な意味しか取れないとかないって暇な時にやってみれば分かると思うんだけど。 (Are you saying having used GPT-4 for translation? Seriously speaking, I think that it only gets superficial meaning isn't [true] if [you] would try [it] when [you'd] have time.) 0: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=35530380 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=35530380

redox99 4y ago
GPT4 実際にGPT-4を翻訳に使ったことがありますか？本当に、明示的な意味だけを伝えるという話が、試してみるだけで簡単に解決できるなんて、冗談じゃないですか。
- numpad0 4y ago
  WHAT. It's got the second half wrong. Google: Have you actually used GPT-4 for translation? Really, it's a joke that the story of only conveying explicit meaning can be easily solved by just trying. DeepL: Have you actually used GPT-4 for translation? Really, it's a joke that all this talk about conveying only explicit meaning can be easily solved by just trying it out. Mine: Have you actually used GPT-4 for translations? That you can really just, try and easily solve that story that to convey explicit meaning, is such a joke.
  - redox99 4y ago
    Here's a couple more from GPT4 (since it's random every time because of temperature) GPT-4を翻訳に実際に使ったことがありますか？本気で、伝えたい意味だけを伝えるという話は、ちょっと試してみれば簡単に解決できると思うのですが。実際にGPT-4を翻訳に使ったことがありますか？本当に、試してみるだけで簡単に払拭できると思うのに、この「明確な意味だけが伝わる」話ばかりで。
    - numpad0 4y ago
      本気で、伝えたい意味だけを伝えるという話は、ちょっと試してみれば簡単に解決できると思うのですが。 "In seriousness, I think the story that [subject] tells the meaning [it/he/they] wants to tell, should be easily solvable by trying a bit." or "Seriously, the story of telling the meaning [subject] wants to tell, should be easily solvable by trying a bit." 本当に、試してみるだけで簡単に払拭できると思うのに、この「明確な意味だけが伝わる」話ばかりで。 "Really, I think it'll be easily swept away by just trying, but there are so much of this 'only clear meaning is conveyed' stories." I'm almost feeling that GPT-4 should be eligible for human rights, especially astonishing that they dropped explicit specification of "afternoon" that don't work well. But also interesting it's failing to keep the intent of the whole sentence unlike 3.5 and even more primitive NN translation engines.
      - 4y ago