4 ms·

I truly pity you for thinking that learning a foreign language is a redundant exercise because of machine translation. And besides, though machines may perform

by DC-3 3y ago

I truly pity you for thinking that learning a foreign language is a redundant exercise because of machine translation. And besides, though machines may perform well on menus and tax returns, I hardly think them on the cusp of emitting fine translations of great poems or novels.

MengerSponge 3y ago
I literally had a menu two days ago that translated "confit" as "candied". I'm not sure I'd trust a machine on a menu or my tax returns yet.
famouswaffles 3y ago
Bilingual/Multilingual LLMs are human level translators more or less. The only way you can think "not on the cusp" is if you haven't actually used GPT-4 for translation. Use it and you'll be set straight pretty quickly.
- DC-3 3y ago
  I haven't used GPT-4 for translation so I acknowledge I might be wrong. But GPT-3 was such an irredeemably terrible poet that it made me sceptical that this type of software could ever develop aesthetic taste or artistic vision. Moreover – and I understand this is an uncharitable thing to say, but it is my honest observation – time and again I have noticed the inability of AI cheerleaders to judge literature on its artistic merits. This doesn't hold universally, but it's common enough that I have resolved to regard such claims with extreme doubt.
  - dwaltrip 3y ago
    Gpt-4 is a far better poet than gpt-3. It isn’t world-class and may be missing some ineffable poetic soul, but its attempts are definitely notable and interesting. They seem mostly better than what I could write with significant effort. Oh and I should emphasize that the quality and specificity of the prompt has a huge effect on the output. I agree that gpt-3 was pretty trash at poetry, at least compared to human standards. It was impressive for AI, obviously.
  - sebzim4500 3y ago
    >time and again I have noticed the inability of AI cheerleaders to judge literature on its artistic merits. This doesn't hold universally, but it's common enough that I have resolved to regard such claims with extreme doubt. I don't understand how you could possibly have collected enough data to claim this. How many times have you seen an 'AI cheerleader' (whatever that is) attempt to judge the literature on its artistic merits?
    - DC-3 3y ago
      At least a dozen times!
  - M4v3R 3y ago
    I've used GPT-4 for translation numerous times and it worked astonishingly well, better then Google Translate most of the time. Especially when translating idioms and slang. It's also much better than GPT-3 at poetry - I really suggest you try it before just remaining skeptical about the technology.
- fvdessen 3y ago
  I was curious so I asked GPT-4 to translate a bit of french literature, here it is, along with the official translation (I'll let you guess which is which) ------- The tale I'm about to unfold commenced with a mysterious handwriting on an envelope. Within the pen strokes that outlined my name and the address of the Fossil Review, a publication I was associated with and where the letter had been forwarded from, there was an intriguing fusion of intensity and tenderness. As I speculated about the possible sender and message contents, a faint yet compelling sensation stirred within me, akin to a stone disrupting a tranquil frog pond. An unspoken realization surfaced, acknowledging the stagnancy of my life as of late. Upon opening the letter, I couldn't ascertain whether it felt like a revitalizing burst of fresh air or an unwelcome chilly breeze. In the same brisk and flowing handwriting, the message was conveyed without pause: Sir, I have perused your article on Mount Analogue. Up until now, I considered myself the sole believer in its existence. Presently, we are a pair; tomorrow, perhaps a group of ten or more, and then we can launch our expedition. It is essential that we establish contact promptly. Kindly phone me at one of the numbers provided below at your earliest convenience. I eagerly anticipate your call. -------- My story begins with some unfamiliar handwriting on an envelope. On it was written only my name and the address of the Revue des Fossiles, to which I had contributed and from which the letter had been forwarded. Yet those few penstrokes conveyed a shifting blend of violence and gentleness. Beneath my curiosity about the possible sender and contents of the letter, a vague but powerful presentiment evoked in me the image of 'a pebble in the mill-pond'. And from deep within me, like a bubble, rose the admission that my life had become all too stagnant lately. Thus, when opened the letter, I could not be sure whether it affected me like a breath of fresh air or like a disagreeable draught. In what seemed a single movement, the same fluent hand had written as follows: Sir: I have read your article on Mount Analogue. Until now I had believed myself the only person convinced of its existence. Today there are two of us, tomorrow there will be ten, perhaps more, and we can attempt the expedition. We must meet without delay. Telephone me as soon as you can at one of the numbers below. I shall be expecting your call. --------- Le commencement de tout ce que je vais raconter, ce fut une écriture inconnue sur une enveloppe. Il y avait dans ces traits de plume qui traçaient mon nom et l’adresse de la Revue des Fossiles, à laquelle je collaborais et d’où l’on m’avait fait suivre la lettre, un mélange tournant de violence et de douceur. Derrière les questions que je me formulais sur l’expéditeur et le contenu possibles du message, un vague mais puissant pressentiment m’évoquait l’image du « pavé dans la mare aux grenouilles ». Et du fond l’aveu montait comme une bulle que ma vie était devenue bien stagnante, ces derniers temps. Aussi, quand j’ouvris la lettre, je n’aurais su distinguer si elle me faisait l’effet d’une vivifiante bouffée d’air frais ou d’un désagréable courant d’air. La même écriture, rapide et bien liée, disait tout d’un trait : Monsieur, j’ai lu votre article sur le Mont Analogue. Je m’étais cru le seul, jusqu’ici, à être convaincu de son existence. Aujourd’hui, nous sommes deux, demain nous serons dix, plus peut-être, et on pourra tenter l’expédition. Il faut que nous prenions contact le plus vite possible. Téléphonez-moi dès que vous pourrez à un des numéros ci-dessous. Je vous attends.
luisfmh 3y ago
agreed, not to mention that there's things that just can't be expressed. Speaking as someone fluent in spanish and english there's nuance to some things that don't really translate well.
Bjorkbat 3y ago
I made a similar comment here on HN, but in a different post, in response to someone arguing that there should be fewer spoken languages and that the death of a language was “a good thing”. A language is more than a means of communication. It’s a culture. It’s a world. It was a disappointing lesson in how reductive people can be.
kortilla 3y ago
>I hardly think them on the cusp of emitting fine translations of great poems or novels. Have you seen what ChatGPT is capable of with “in the style of”? It’s definitely beyond menu translation.

by DC-3 3y ago

MengerSponge 3y ago

I literally had a menu two days ago that translated "confit" as "candied". I'm not sure I'd trust a machine on a menu or my tax returns yet.

famouswaffles 3y ago

Bilingual/Multilingual LLMs are human level translators more or less. The only way you can think "not on the cusp" is if you haven't actually used GPT-4 for translation. Use it and you'll be set straight pretty quickly.

DC-3 3y ago
I haven't used GPT-4 for translation so I acknowledge I might be wrong. But GPT-3 was such an irredeemably terrible poet that it made me sceptical that this type of software could ever develop aesthetic taste or artistic vision. Moreover – and I understand this is an uncharitable thing to say, but it is my honest observation – time and again I have noticed the inability of AI cheerleaders to judge literature on its artistic merits. This doesn't hold universally, but it's common enough that I have resolved to regard such claims with extreme doubt.
- dwaltrip 3y ago
  Gpt-4 is a far better poet than gpt-3. It isn’t world-class and may be missing some ineffable poetic soul, but its attempts are definitely notable and interesting. They seem mostly better than what I could write with significant effort. Oh and I should emphasize that the quality and specificity of the prompt has a huge effect on the output. I agree that gpt-3 was pretty trash at poetry, at least compared to human standards. It was impressive for AI, obviously.
- sebzim4500 3y ago
  >time and again I have noticed the inability of AI cheerleaders to judge literature on its artistic merits. This doesn't hold universally, but it's common enough that I have resolved to regard such claims with extreme doubt. I don't understand how you could possibly have collected enough data to claim this. How many times have you seen an 'AI cheerleader' (whatever that is) attempt to judge the literature on its artistic merits?
  - DC-3 3y ago
    At least a dozen times!
- M4v3R 3y ago
  I've used GPT-4 for translation numerous times and it worked astonishingly well, better then Google Translate most of the time. Especially when translating idioms and slang. It's also much better than GPT-3 at poetry - I really suggest you try it before just remaining skeptical about the technology.
fvdessen 3y ago
I was curious so I asked GPT-4 to translate a bit of french literature, here it is, along with the official translation (I'll let you guess which is which) ------- The tale I'm about to unfold commenced with a mysterious handwriting on an envelope. Within the pen strokes that outlined my name and the address of the Fossil Review, a publication I was associated with and where the letter had been forwarded from, there was an intriguing fusion of intensity and tenderness. As I speculated about the possible sender and message contents, a faint yet compelling sensation stirred within me, akin to a stone disrupting a tranquil frog pond. An unspoken realization surfaced, acknowledging the stagnancy of my life as of late. Upon opening the letter, I couldn't ascertain whether it felt like a revitalizing burst of fresh air or an unwelcome chilly breeze. In the same brisk and flowing handwriting, the message was conveyed without pause: Sir, I have perused your article on Mount Analogue. Up until now, I considered myself the sole believer in its existence. Presently, we are a pair; tomorrow, perhaps a group of ten or more, and then we can launch our expedition. It is essential that we establish contact promptly. Kindly phone me at one of the numbers provided below at your earliest convenience. I eagerly anticipate your call. -------- My story begins with some unfamiliar handwriting on an envelope. On it was written only my name and the address of the Revue des Fossiles, to which I had contributed and from which the letter had been forwarded. Yet those few penstrokes conveyed a shifting blend of violence and gentleness. Beneath my curiosity about the possible sender and contents of the letter, a vague but powerful presentiment evoked in me the image of 'a pebble in the mill-pond'. And from deep within me, like a bubble, rose the admission that my life had become all too stagnant lately. Thus, when opened the letter, I could not be sure whether it affected me like a breath of fresh air or like a disagreeable draught. In what seemed a single movement, the same fluent hand had written as follows: Sir: I have read your article on Mount Analogue. Until now I had believed myself the only person convinced of its existence. Today there are two of us, tomorrow there will be ten, perhaps more, and we can attempt the expedition. We must meet without delay. Telephone me as soon as you can at one of the numbers below. I shall be expecting your call. --------- Le commencement de tout ce que je vais raconter, ce fut une écriture inconnue sur une enveloppe. Il y avait dans ces traits de plume qui traçaient mon nom et l’adresse de la Revue des Fossiles, à laquelle je collaborais et d’où l’on m’avait fait suivre la lettre, un mélange tournant de violence et de douceur. Derrière les questions que je me formulais sur l’expéditeur et le contenu possibles du message, un vague mais puissant pressentiment m’évoquait l’image du « pavé dans la mare aux grenouilles ». Et du fond l’aveu montait comme une bulle que ma vie était devenue bien stagnante, ces derniers temps. Aussi, quand j’ouvris la lettre, je n’aurais su distinguer si elle me faisait l’effet d’une vivifiante bouffée d’air frais ou d’un désagréable courant d’air. La même écriture, rapide et bien liée, disait tout d’un trait : Monsieur, j’ai lu votre article sur le Mont Analogue. Je m’étais cru le seul, jusqu’ici, à être convaincu de son existence. Aujourd’hui, nous sommes deux, demain nous serons dix, plus peut-être, et on pourra tenter l’expédition. Il faut que nous prenions contact le plus vite possible. Téléphonez-moi dès que vous pourrez à un des numéros ci-dessous. Je vous attends.

luisfmh 3y ago

agreed, not to mention that there's things that just can't be expressed. Speaking as someone fluent in spanish and english there's nuance to some things that don't really translate well.

Bjorkbat 3y ago

I made a similar comment here on HN, but in a different post, in response to someone arguing that there should be fewer spoken languages and that the death of a language was “a good thing”. A language is more than a means of communication. It’s a culture. It’s a world. It was a disappointing lesson in how reductive people can be.

kortilla 3y ago

>I hardly think them on the cusp of emitting fine translations of great poems or novels. Have you seen what ChatGPT is capable of with “in the style of”? It’s definitely beyond menu translation.