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Or maybe people want him to fail for the same reason they want someone like Martin Shkreli or Kanye West to fail: because he's bad for society.

leobg 4y ago
I think there are better ways to make the world a better place than wanting someone you don't like to fail. Besides, there's often an ulterior motive - not just for wanting that person to fail, but also for telling yourself that they are "bad for society". Where one cannot love, one should – pass by. - Nietzsche
mlindner 4y ago
Really? It's hard to imagine him doing anything at this point that would offset the good he's done for society. He upset and tore down the military-industrial complex launch monopoly saving the collective US tax payers billions through starting SpaceX (and could soon revolutionize access to space for the average person within the next decade). (Also note that without SpaceX, we'd still be paying money to Russia to send US astronauts to space, which wouldn't be a good look during the Russian invasion of Ukraine.) He created an electrical vehicle revolution that's taking the world by storm, changing industries and pushing us much faster toward ending global warming than would have happened without. It's hard to imagine a few misguided political opinions could offset all of that. Let's be realistic here. (Yes you can't attribute all that to him solely, as Elon himself says commonly, the praise should be given to the workers at SpaceX and Tesla, not him. But at the same time, without him, they would have never happened.)
- ncallaway 4y ago
  This feels like some kind of the opposite of the sunk costs fallacy. Like a “past gains” fallacy. None of those good things magically disappear if Elon fails in his Twitter purchase or changes. Those past gains have already happened. If your argument was forward looking it would make more sense to me (if he fails with this Twitter program, he won’t be able to deliver Starship which would be bad because XYZ; or it would impact his ability to continue Tesla forward because ABC). I don’t know that I agree with the forward looking argument, but it seems more sound to me than the backward looking argument.
- leobg 4y ago
  You said it well. I actually suspect that many people hate him not in spite of what he has done, but because of it: They think if they acknowledge what people like Elon Musk have done in their lives, they'd have to loathe themselves, their own choices, values and weaknesses. Which is, of course, quite silly. Each human being has their own path in life. Comparing yourself to anyone, no matter who, is going to cause misery. But with people like Elon, the threat to the ego is particularly great. So, hate and schadenfreude are the easy way out. "He, too, makes mistakes. So I'm not that worthless after all". (The irony being that many of these people say that Elon Musk is self-centered. Though the question he is asking is "What do I believe is greatest good to humanity as a species", whereas they, by their very act of comparing themselves to him, are asking "How can I be greater than and more right than Elon Musk".)
  - timmytokyo 4y ago
    I actually suspect that people who idolize Elon Musk are subscribers to the Just World Fallacy, believing that he represents the kind of person that they -- though in a temporarily diminished and embarrassing state -- can become. They can't wait for the time when they too have the consequence-free power to sneer at disabled people, spread lies about victims of violent attacks, and call people who mildly disagree with them "pedo guy". (By the way, I don't actually agree with any of what I wrote above. It's just another example of a bad-faith argument like the one I'm responding to.)
    - mlindner 4y ago
      [flagged]
    - nemo44x 4y ago
      I could never accomplish what he has. He is so many standard deviations away from a regular person that it’s ridiculous to to feel anything but admiration. He’s human and imperfect like everyone and that’s ok. He was born with certain abilities and drive and he has made the world a better place by using those gifts. He is not beyond criticism either and some of his fans are too eager to dismiss them.
  - 4y ago

leobg 4y ago

I think there are better ways to make the world a better place than wanting someone you don't like to fail. Besides, there's often an ulterior motive - not just for wanting that person to fail, but also for telling yourself that they are "bad for society". Where one cannot love, one should – pass by. - Nietzsche

mlindner 4y ago

Really? It's hard to imagine him doing anything at this point that would offset the good he's done for society. He upset and tore down the military-industrial complex launch monopoly saving the collective US tax payers billions through starting SpaceX (and could soon revolutionize access to space for the average person within the next decade). (Also note that without SpaceX, we'd still be paying money to Russia to send US astronauts to space, which wouldn't be a good look during the Russian invasion of Ukraine.) He created an electrical vehicle revolution that's taking the world by storm, changing industries and pushing us much faster toward ending global warming than would have happened without. It's hard to imagine a few misguided political opinions could offset all of that. Let's be realistic here. (Yes you can't attribute all that to him solely, as Elon himself says commonly, the praise should be given to the workers at SpaceX and Tesla, not him. But at the same time, without him, they would have never happened.)

ncallaway 4y ago
This feels like some kind of the opposite of the sunk costs fallacy. Like a “past gains” fallacy. None of those good things magically disappear if Elon fails in his Twitter purchase or changes. Those past gains have already happened. If your argument was forward looking it would make more sense to me (if he fails with this Twitter program, he won’t be able to deliver Starship which would be bad because XYZ; or it would impact his ability to continue Tesla forward because ABC). I don’t know that I agree with the forward looking argument, but it seems more sound to me than the backward looking argument.
leobg 4y ago
You said it well. I actually suspect that many people hate him not in spite of what he has done, but because of it: They think if they acknowledge what people like Elon Musk have done in their lives, they'd have to loathe themselves, their own choices, values and weaknesses. Which is, of course, quite silly. Each human being has their own path in life. Comparing yourself to anyone, no matter who, is going to cause misery. But with people like Elon, the threat to the ego is particularly great. So, hate and schadenfreude are the easy way out. "He, too, makes mistakes. So I'm not that worthless after all". (The irony being that many of these people say that Elon Musk is self-centered. Though the question he is asking is "What do I believe is greatest good to humanity as a species", whereas they, by their very act of comparing themselves to him, are asking "How can I be greater than and more right than Elon Musk".)
- timmytokyo 4y ago
  I actually suspect that people who idolize Elon Musk are subscribers to the Just World Fallacy, believing that he represents the kind of person that they -- though in a temporarily diminished and embarrassing state -- can become. They can't wait for the time when they too have the consequence-free power to sneer at disabled people, spread lies about victims of violent attacks, and call people who mildly disagree with them "pedo guy". (By the way, I don't actually agree with any of what I wrote above. It's just another example of a bad-faith argument like the one I'm responding to.)
  - mlindner 4y ago
    [flagged]
  - nemo44x 4y ago
    I could never accomplish what he has. He is so many standard deviations away from a regular person that it’s ridiculous to to feel anything but admiration. He’s human and imperfect like everyone and that’s ok. He was born with certain abilities and drive and he has made the world a better place by using those gifts. He is not beyond criticism either and some of his fans are too eager to dismiss them.
- 4y ago