3 ms·

Holmes, Madoff etc... are all the proof that you need that the only people who go to Jail for fraud are the ones whose fraud hurts specifically investors.

JumpCrisscross 4y ago
> the only people who go to Jail for fraud are the ones whose fraud hurts specifically investors Minus all the other fraud convictions constantly being handed down in America, sure.
- mywittyname 4y ago
  I think the OP meant more, "the only rich people". Having enough money to have the direct line to someone important in a political party is valuable. Enough prosecutors have a mind for future ambitions and understand that some battles just aren't worth fighting. That doesn't make for straight up immunity, but it does change the calculus enough that so long as no one else really cares about your crime, they can let it slide or negotiate it down to something trivial.
  - JumpCrisscross 4y ago
    > it does change the calculus enough that so long as no one else really cares about your crime, they can let it slide This ignores the other side of the calculus: the political and career benefits of high-profile takedowns. I don't claim this balances across the power spectrum. But it's a far cry from the dystopia OP posits.
jkaptur 4y ago
Just from pop culture, I can come up with a counterexample: https://www.justice.gov/usao-sdny/pr/reality-show-cast-member-jennifer-shah-sentenced-78-months-prison-running-nationwide https://www.justice.gov/usao-sdny/pr/reality-show-cast-membe... I'm not saying you're wrong in the aggregate, but can't you make a better argument? How can noting two people who went to jail for one reason be "all the proof you need"?
- superkuh 4y ago
  The context here is the rich and powerful. A reality show actor is not in that group and doesn't have those priveledges. Prosecuting someone like that does not make the powerful uncomfortable by setting a precedent so it's done all the time. But the only time one of their in-group is sent to prison is when it hurts other rich and powerful.
  - from 4y ago
    There are investment fraud prosecutions literally all the time, they just get 5-10 years in prison usually, not life. They aren't on national news because few people know the scammer or the victims. Here are a handful from this year alone: https://www.courtlistener.com/docket/67034239/1/united-states-v-zhu/ https://www.courtlistener.com/docket/67034239/1/united-state... https://www.courtlistener.com/docket/66964256/1/united-states-v-sealed/ https://www.courtlistener.com/docket/66964256/1/united-state... https://www.courtlistener.com/docket/66760869/1/united-states-v-white/ https://www.courtlistener.com/docket/66760869/1/united-state... https://www.courtlistener.com/docket/65767429/17/united-states-v-charlebois/ https://www.courtlistener.com/docket/65767429/17/united-stat...
- Aperocky 4y ago
  Plaster this: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/P-value https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/P-value
ljw1001 4y ago
Exactly. Only an amateur criminal steals from the rich.
pankajdoharey 4y ago
However you put it, but this judgement proves that justice exists, and i am happy to see scammers put behind bars in the mother of democracy. USA in-spite of its gun culture still rocks in some aspects.
dc-programmer 4y ago
Shkreli served prison time for fraud that did not lose investors money. But I think what you are saying has some truth to it

JumpCrisscross 4y ago

> the only people who go to Jail for fraud are the ones whose fraud hurts specifically investors Minus all the other fraud convictions constantly being handed down in America, sure.

mywittyname 4y ago
I think the OP meant more, "the only rich people". Having enough money to have the direct line to someone important in a political party is valuable. Enough prosecutors have a mind for future ambitions and understand that some battles just aren't worth fighting. That doesn't make for straight up immunity, but it does change the calculus enough that so long as no one else really cares about your crime, they can let it slide or negotiate it down to something trivial.
- JumpCrisscross 4y ago
  > it does change the calculus enough that so long as no one else really cares about your crime, they can let it slide This ignores the other side of the calculus: the political and career benefits of high-profile takedowns. I don't claim this balances across the power spectrum. But it's a far cry from the dystopia OP posits.

jkaptur 4y ago

Just from pop culture, I can come up with a counterexample: https://www.justice.gov/usao-sdny/pr/reality-show-cast-member-jennifer-shah-sentenced-78-months-prison-running-nationwide https://www.justice.gov/usao-sdny/pr/reality-show-cast-membe... I'm not saying you're wrong in the aggregate, but can't you make a better argument? How can noting two people who went to jail for one reason be "all the proof you need"?

superkuh 4y ago
The context here is the rich and powerful. A reality show actor is not in that group and doesn't have those priveledges. Prosecuting someone like that does not make the powerful uncomfortable by setting a precedent so it's done all the time. But the only time one of their in-group is sent to prison is when it hurts other rich and powerful.
- from 4y ago
  There are investment fraud prosecutions literally all the time, they just get 5-10 years in prison usually, not life. They aren't on national news because few people know the scammer or the victims. Here are a handful from this year alone: https://www.courtlistener.com/docket/67034239/1/united-states-v-zhu/ https://www.courtlistener.com/docket/67034239/1/united-state... https://www.courtlistener.com/docket/66964256/1/united-states-v-sealed/ https://www.courtlistener.com/docket/66964256/1/united-state... https://www.courtlistener.com/docket/66760869/1/united-states-v-white/ https://www.courtlistener.com/docket/66760869/1/united-state... https://www.courtlistener.com/docket/65767429/17/united-states-v-charlebois/ https://www.courtlistener.com/docket/65767429/17/united-stat...
Aperocky 4y ago
Plaster this: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/P-value https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/P-value

ljw1001 4y ago

Exactly. Only an amateur criminal steals from the rich.

pankajdoharey 4y ago

However you put it, but this judgement proves that justice exists, and i am happy to see scammers put behind bars in the mother of democracy. USA in-spite of its gun culture still rocks in some aspects.

dc-programmer 4y ago

Shkreli served prison time for fraud that did not lose investors money. But I think what you are saying has some truth to it