4 ms·

I have a thing for not taking advice from someone that doesn't listen to their doctor.

leobg 3y ago
If he had been the kind of person who just “listens to their doctor”, maybe he wouldn’t have come up with the iPad? (I know he didn’t invent that single-handedly. But you know what I mean.)
manmal 3y ago
That could imply that humans are very low dimensional, such that a habit of not listening to doctors immediately carries over into their product design habits. Have you found this to be the case about humans? I personally haven't. I've experienced humans to be highly complex and multi layered, often applying different concepts and world views to different domains. In some areas they are driven by fear, in other areas by curiosity or perfectionism.
- iamerroragent 3y ago
  I've worked hand-in-hand with technologly static religiously devout Amish. They listen to their doctor.
  - peteradio 3y ago
    So would you take advice from Amish person about iphones?
    - smoldesu 3y ago
      Honestly, it might be a nice change of pace.
    - iamerroragent 3y ago
      How is that appropriately analogous? Do you go to your doctor for advice about iPhones? Ironically I did learn how to get a dead engine to start via an Amish mechanic (he ran a business repairing generators for his community)
      - peteradio 3y ago
        You've established a general reason to mistrust a person but then bring up the Amish for no apparent reason. What do the Amish have to do with this thread besides that they apparently always trust doctors (which I doubt is generally true)?
        iamerroragent 3y ago
        Point is that even groups we often associate with backwards thinking still will do the reasonable thing like caring about their health and listening to medical professionals.
        peteradio 3y ago
        So, excepting for their strict doctor standards they are otherwise quite backwards thinking (according to you)? So I again can't quite tell what the Amish have to do with this and whether they should generally be trusted. Sure on the doctor metric they excel, but is there any other standard by which you would characterize a peoples standards of opinion?
        iamerroragent 3y ago
        Are you sincerely suggesting that Amish, to the general American population, are not considered backwards thinking when it comes to technology and dress?
    - crossroadsguy 3y ago
      Seeing what people who design and make iPhones have been doing to iPhones of late, oh yes!
  - deleted 3y ago
    [deleted]
  - manmal 3y ago
    That’s because listening to a doctor is not a great way of measuring reasonability.
deleted 3y ago
[deleted]
nicenewtemp84 3y ago
I dated a doctor for all of medical school and through that became friends with their social circle and keep in touch with many now doctors. Imo, most of them are barely capable at doing their own speciality correctly day in and day out due to burnout, and are almost completely worthless at anything just slightly outside their exact preferred area of expertise inside their own speciality.
- brokenmachine 3y ago
  And yet, still 1000x more useful that whatever craziness Steve Jobs was doing.
filoleg 3y ago
I have a thing for taking advice in specific fields from people who are doing great in those fields and appear to have something useful to say on related topics, and not taking advice from them on topics they don't seem to be knowledgeable about or make poor decisions in relation to. I would definitely love to listen to Steve Jobs's advice on topics of building products or companies. Not that they should be accepted as the ultimate truth, but i would be interested to hear his takes on it nonetheless. If someone seriously considers listening to medical advice from someone who has zero education, experience, and expertise in the field, as well as going against what the actual experts say (with very predictable results in the end), I hope they strongly reconsider their life choices. EDIT: the last paragraph wasn't mocking Jobs, it was mocking people who would seriously consider listening to him for healthcare advice.
- iamerroragent 3y ago
  "I hope they strongly reconsider their life choices." Well unfortunately Steve waited too long to do that.
  - filoleg 3y ago
    Yes, but it doesn't mean that because Steve was foolish when it came to taking care of his health, all the other things he wasn't foolish about are suddenly worthless of being listened to. And it isn't like he was publicly promoting his healthcare advice in any way either.
    - iamerroragent 3y ago
      Well suit yourself but for me personally it makes me really question the persons ability to reason in all other aspects of life as well. I think it's dangerous to ascribe talent and expertise to someone just because they made a shit ton of money.
      - camjw 3y ago
        I don't think anyone ascribes talent and expertise in building products to Steve Jobs purely because he made a shit ton of money... its because he made really good products. I wonder what random flaw we could pull out on you? Do you put sugar in your coffee?
scottyah 3y ago
Always get second+ opinions, in my experience doctors rarely come to the same conclusion and it can be bad for your health. Anyone who trusts strangers based solely on titles or past performance is going to have a bad time.
- 908B64B197 3y ago
  Something I always keep in mind: the medical field is one where the provider gets paid no matter the outcome. You notice nobody in the field advertise their success rates or makes any firm commitments...
  - brokenmachine 3y ago
    Have you never signed a consent form? There's numbers on there. Also side effects are literally written on the box. You can read the papers if you like. Also lots of industries you get paid no matter the outcome.
pedalpete 3y ago
That's throwing the baby out with the bathwater. I used to have the same attitude, but it is deeply beneficial to not assume that one mistake a person makes proves that anything else they do is worthless. Let's face it, you could also say that you won't take advice from Jobs because of his "management style" and the way he treated people. You wouldn't say that you don't take golf advice from Tiger Woods due to his philandering, would you?
hammyhavoc 3y ago
Whilst I understand the sentiment, this also assumes that doctors are never wrong, which unfortunately, they frequently are. Malpractice suits anyone?

If he had been the kind of person who just “listens to their doctor”, maybe he wouldn’t have come up with the iPad? (I know he didn’t invent that single-handedly. But you know what I mean.)

manmal 3y ago

That could imply that humans are very low dimensional, such that a habit of not listening to doctors immediately carries over into their product design habits. Have you found this to be the case about humans? I personally haven't. I've experienced humans to be highly complex and multi layered, often applying different concepts and world views to different domains. In some areas they are driven by fear, in other areas by curiosity or perfectionism.

iamerroragent 3y ago
I've worked hand-in-hand with technologly static religiously devout Amish. They listen to their doctor.
- peteradio 3y ago
  So would you take advice from Amish person about iphones?
  - smoldesu 3y ago
    Honestly, it might be a nice change of pace.
  - iamerroragent 3y ago
    How is that appropriately analogous? Do you go to your doctor for advice about iPhones? Ironically I did learn how to get a dead engine to start via an Amish mechanic (he ran a business repairing generators for his community)
    - peteradio 3y ago
      You've established a general reason to mistrust a person but then bring up the Amish for no apparent reason. What do the Amish have to do with this thread besides that they apparently always trust doctors (which I doubt is generally true)?
      - iamerroragent 3y ago
        Point is that even groups we often associate with backwards thinking still will do the reasonable thing like caring about their health and listening to medical professionals.
        peteradio 3y ago
        So, excepting for their strict doctor standards they are otherwise quite backwards thinking (according to you)? So I again can't quite tell what the Amish have to do with this and whether they should generally be trusted. Sure on the doctor metric they excel, but is there any other standard by which you would characterize a peoples standards of opinion?
        iamerroragent 3y ago
        Are you sincerely suggesting that Amish, to the general American population, are not considered backwards thinking when it comes to technology and dress?
  - crossroadsguy 3y ago
    Seeing what people who design and make iPhones have been doing to iPhones of late, oh yes!
- deleted 3y ago
  [deleted]
- manmal 3y ago
  That’s because listening to a doctor is not a great way of measuring reasonability.

deleted 3y ago

[deleted]

nicenewtemp84 3y ago

I dated a doctor for all of medical school and through that became friends with their social circle and keep in touch with many now doctors. Imo, most of them are barely capable at doing their own speciality correctly day in and day out due to burnout, and are almost completely worthless at anything just slightly outside their exact preferred area of expertise inside their own speciality.

brokenmachine 3y ago
And yet, still 1000x more useful that whatever craziness Steve Jobs was doing.

filoleg 3y ago

I have a thing for taking advice in specific fields from people who are doing great in those fields and appear to have something useful to say on related topics, and not taking advice from them on topics they don't seem to be knowledgeable about or make poor decisions in relation to. I would definitely love to listen to Steve Jobs's advice on topics of building products or companies. Not that they should be accepted as the ultimate truth, but i would be interested to hear his takes on it nonetheless. If someone seriously considers listening to medical advice from someone who has zero education, experience, and expertise in the field, as well as going against what the actual experts say (with very predictable results in the end), I hope they strongly reconsider their life choices. EDIT: the last paragraph wasn't mocking Jobs, it was mocking people who would seriously consider listening to him for healthcare advice.

iamerroragent 3y ago
"I hope they strongly reconsider their life choices." Well unfortunately Steve waited too long to do that.
- filoleg 3y ago
  Yes, but it doesn't mean that because Steve was foolish when it came to taking care of his health, all the other things he wasn't foolish about are suddenly worthless of being listened to. And it isn't like he was publicly promoting his healthcare advice in any way either.
  - iamerroragent 3y ago
    Well suit yourself but for me personally it makes me really question the persons ability to reason in all other aspects of life as well. I think it's dangerous to ascribe talent and expertise to someone just because they made a shit ton of money.
    - camjw 3y ago
      I don't think anyone ascribes talent and expertise in building products to Steve Jobs purely because he made a shit ton of money... its because he made really good products. I wonder what random flaw we could pull out on you? Do you put sugar in your coffee?

scottyah 3y ago

Always get second+ opinions, in my experience doctors rarely come to the same conclusion and it can be bad for your health. Anyone who trusts strangers based solely on titles or past performance is going to have a bad time.

908B64B197 3y ago
Something I always keep in mind: the medical field is one where the provider gets paid no matter the outcome. You notice nobody in the field advertise their success rates or makes any firm commitments...
- brokenmachine 3y ago
  Have you never signed a consent form? There's numbers on there. Also side effects are literally written on the box. You can read the papers if you like. Also lots of industries you get paid no matter the outcome.

pedalpete 3y ago

That's throwing the baby out with the bathwater. I used to have the same attitude, but it is deeply beneficial to not assume that one mistake a person makes proves that anything else they do is worthless. Let's face it, you could also say that you won't take advice from Jobs because of his "management style" and the way he treated people. You wouldn't say that you don't take golf advice from Tiger Woods due to his philandering, would you?

hammyhavoc 3y ago

Whilst I understand the sentiment, this also assumes that doctors are never wrong, which unfortunately, they frequently are. Malpractice suits anyone?