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>but I don't believe ICE cars "terrifically convenient" when you can charge at home the vast majority of the time The nice thing about market activity is that

>but I don't believe ICE cars "terrifically convenient" when you can charge at home the vast majority of the time The nice thing about market activity is that we each have the power to make decisions about what is convenient. Upgrading the electrical service at my house to support charging would cost about as much as all the gas I've put into my car in the last 10 years. And about 1/4 of those miles are cross country (US) drives, where a charger at home wouldn't have done any good.

ToDougie 4y ago
I wonder how many people do not have access to an outlet to charge overnight at their home.... I have been parking on the street or in a carport for almost a decade. I'm not sure my cleaning lady, gardener, pest control guy, dental hygienist, taco truck owner, mail carriers, etc. have anywhere they can park overnight and charge a vehicle.
- JohnFen 4y ago
  > I wonder how many people do not have access to an outlet to charge overnight at their home.... A huge number! We can start with almost 100% of people who live in apartment buildings. The charging situation alone makes electric vehicles infeasible for me.
  - sleepybrett 4y ago
    I live in a 5 year old apt building in seattle. Currently nearly half the spaces in the parking garage have chargers. So builders are either listening to their clientele or perhaps regulations are forcing their hands. This is just a transitory timeframe. When gas cars were hitting the road there wasn't magically a gas station on every corner and a mechanic in every town. Just like always it's a bit of 'build it and they will come' and 'hurry up and build it already'. Hell at my office there is already conversations happening with the building about providing power into the bicycle cage to top off e-bikes.
    - JohnFen 4y ago
      > I live in a 5 year old apt building in seattle. I could see this in new apartment buildings (at least the more expensive ones), but most apartment buildings aren't so new. With most of the existing ones I see around, adding chargers would be crazy expensive because you'd have to do a lot of concrete/asphalt work in order to install them. I don't see that happening except in the swankier buildings who have a budget.
      - travisporter 4y ago
        I'm in the same boat. It's a bit nuanced actually - I do have a 120v plug available near a spot, and I only drive at most 40 miles, so it's definitely doable, although I think charging from 240v is more efficient overall? My HOA is also interested in adding a charger and the nice thing is due to modern industrial design asthetic, they're cool with the conduits/wires showing as long as they're color matched, which makes it much easier in an open lot. Now trying to convince them to cover it with solar panels would be nice for my car :)
  - AtlasBarfed 4y ago
    I understand it is currently hard, but apartment buildings are concentrated housing and parking. What is economically harder: electrify 1000 homes for EVs or 1000 people in a building? Sounds like incentivicing apartment buildings ev infra is a regularatory shortfall.
    - JohnFen 4y ago
      It depends on how you're measuring "hard". In the case of apartment buildings, you could argue that's harder because it's one entity that has to pay for 1000 installations. In homes, each entity has to pay for a single installation. The cost of 1000 installations is extreme (especially if you have to tear up concrete and asphalt). Certainly more than any but perhaps higher-income housing can, or will, afford.
jollyllama 4y ago
>The nice thing about market activity is that we each have the power to make decisions about what is convenient That's the whole point of the fuel economy and EV regulations. For better or worse, we don't really get to make those decisions.
sleepybrett 4y ago
The nice thing about government activity is that we can collectively make and agreement about what 'convinces' we will tolerate.
- jollyllama 4y ago
  That's also not really what happens. Voters have very little input on any of these rules even though their daily life will essentially be dictated by it.

ToDougie 4y ago

I wonder how many people do not have access to an outlet to charge overnight at their home.... I have been parking on the street or in a carport for almost a decade. I'm not sure my cleaning lady, gardener, pest control guy, dental hygienist, taco truck owner, mail carriers, etc. have anywhere they can park overnight and charge a vehicle.

JohnFen 4y ago
> I wonder how many people do not have access to an outlet to charge overnight at their home.... A huge number! We can start with almost 100% of people who live in apartment buildings. The charging situation alone makes electric vehicles infeasible for me.
- sleepybrett 4y ago
  I live in a 5 year old apt building in seattle. Currently nearly half the spaces in the parking garage have chargers. So builders are either listening to their clientele or perhaps regulations are forcing their hands. This is just a transitory timeframe. When gas cars were hitting the road there wasn't magically a gas station on every corner and a mechanic in every town. Just like always it's a bit of 'build it and they will come' and 'hurry up and build it already'. Hell at my office there is already conversations happening with the building about providing power into the bicycle cage to top off e-bikes.
  - JohnFen 4y ago
    > I live in a 5 year old apt building in seattle. I could see this in new apartment buildings (at least the more expensive ones), but most apartment buildings aren't so new. With most of the existing ones I see around, adding chargers would be crazy expensive because you'd have to do a lot of concrete/asphalt work in order to install them. I don't see that happening except in the swankier buildings who have a budget.
    - travisporter 4y ago
      I'm in the same boat. It's a bit nuanced actually - I do have a 120v plug available near a spot, and I only drive at most 40 miles, so it's definitely doable, although I think charging from 240v is more efficient overall? My HOA is also interested in adding a charger and the nice thing is due to modern industrial design asthetic, they're cool with the conduits/wires showing as long as they're color matched, which makes it much easier in an open lot. Now trying to convince them to cover it with solar panels would be nice for my car :)
- AtlasBarfed 4y ago
  I understand it is currently hard, but apartment buildings are concentrated housing and parking. What is economically harder: electrify 1000 homes for EVs or 1000 people in a building? Sounds like incentivicing apartment buildings ev infra is a regularatory shortfall.
  - JohnFen 4y ago
    It depends on how you're measuring "hard". In the case of apartment buildings, you could argue that's harder because it's one entity that has to pay for 1000 installations. In homes, each entity has to pay for a single installation. The cost of 1000 installations is extreme (especially if you have to tear up concrete and asphalt). Certainly more than any but perhaps higher-income housing can, or will, afford.

jollyllama 4y ago

>The nice thing about market activity is that we each have the power to make decisions about what is convenient That's the whole point of the fuel economy and EV regulations. For better or worse, we don't really get to make those decisions.

sleepybrett 4y ago

The nice thing about government activity is that we can collectively make and agreement about what 'convinces' we will tolerate.

jollyllama 4y ago
That's also not really what happens. Voters have very little input on any of these rules even though their daily life will essentially be dictated by it.