3 ms·

> One is that the ocean is warming, and it needs more space and expands. That doesn’t sound right. I think it is common knowledge that water expands as it free

> One is that the ocean is warming, and it needs more space and expands. That doesn’t sound right. I think it is common knowledge that water expands as it freezes (hence, burst pipes), not when it warms up.

giraffe_lady 4y ago
That's just a quirk of ice, that it's lower density than water. Liquid water still does what most (all?) liquids do wrt temperature changes.
justsocrateasin 4y ago
Water density is almost fully inelastic w/rt temperature. At 60°F the density is 0.99907 g/cm^3, at 100°F the density is 0.99318 g/cm^3. I think that's something like a .5-1% change in density. Pipes bursting is purely because of the drastic density change from ice crystallization. https://www.usgs.gov/special-topics/water-science-school/science/water-density https://www.usgs.gov/special-topics/water-science-school/sci...
kybernetikos 4y ago
Water is at its most dense around 4 degrees C. As the temperature increases from there it gets less dense.
mcguire 4y ago
The thermal expansion coefficient of water: https://www.engineeringtoolbox.com/water-density-specific-weight-d_595.html https://www.engineeringtoolbox.com/water-density-specific-we...
nomel 4y ago
No expert, but here's what I found, because I was curious too. Ice in water doesn't change the waters height. If you put an ice cube in a cup, the water will be the same height after the ice has melted [1], since the "excess" is lifted out of the water. For some numbers, in 2020, it looks like total sea ice peaked at 18,785 km3, with the oceans volume being 130,000,000, so 0.014% [2]. The thermal expansion of water, as liquid form, is going to be much more important [3]. Related, every time I try to look into climate numbers, I get the sense that there's a gap between grade school explanations and research papers. There's not much between. Asking ChatGPT just reinforces this view. It treats me like a kid, or wraps unsolicited disclaimers/summaries around everything. 1. https://physics.stackexchange.com/questions/110645/why-does-ice-melting-not-change-the-water-level-in-a-container https://physics.stackexchange.com/questions/110645/why-does-... 2. https://arctic.noaa.gov/Report-Card/Report-Card-2020/ArtMID/7975/ArticleID/891/Sea-Ice https://arctic.noaa.gov/Report-Card/Report-Card-2020/ArtMID/... 3 https://physics.stackexchange.com/questions/506759/how-much-do-sea-levels-rise-due-to-thermal-expansion https://physics.stackexchange.com/questions/506759/how-much-...

giraffe_lady 4y ago

That's just a quirk of ice, that it's lower density than water. Liquid water still does what most (all?) liquids do wrt temperature changes.

justsocrateasin 4y ago

Water density is almost fully inelastic w/rt temperature. At 60°F the density is 0.99907 g/cm^3, at 100°F the density is 0.99318 g/cm^3. I think that's something like a .5-1% change in density. Pipes bursting is purely because of the drastic density change from ice crystallization. https://www.usgs.gov/special-topics/water-science-school/science/water-density https://www.usgs.gov/special-topics/water-science-school/sci...

kybernetikos 4y ago

Water is at its most dense around 4 degrees C. As the temperature increases from there it gets less dense.

mcguire 4y ago

The thermal expansion coefficient of water: https://www.engineeringtoolbox.com/water-density-specific-weight-d_595.html https://www.engineeringtoolbox.com/water-density-specific-we...

nomel 4y ago

No expert, but here's what I found, because I was curious too. Ice in water doesn't change the waters height. If you put an ice cube in a cup, the water will be the same height after the ice has melted [1], since the "excess" is lifted out of the water. For some numbers, in 2020, it looks like total sea ice peaked at 18,785 km3, with the oceans volume being 130,000,000, so 0.014% [2]. The thermal expansion of water, as liquid form, is going to be much more important [3]. Related, every time I try to look into climate numbers, I get the sense that there's a gap between grade school explanations and research papers. There's not much between. Asking ChatGPT just reinforces this view. It treats me like a kid, or wraps unsolicited disclaimers/summaries around everything. 1. https://physics.stackexchange.com/questions/110645/why-does-ice-melting-not-change-the-water-level-in-a-container https://physics.stackexchange.com/questions/110645/why-does-... 2. https://arctic.noaa.gov/Report-Card/Report-Card-2020/ArtMID/7975/ArticleID/891/Sea-Ice https://arctic.noaa.gov/Report-Card/Report-Card-2020/ArtMID/... 3 https://physics.stackexchange.com/questions/506759/how-much-do-sea-levels-rise-due-to-thermal-expansion https://physics.stackexchange.com/questions/506759/how-much-...