4 ms·

Hold on Tight to Your Gas Powered Car

5 points by jollyllama 4y ago

travisporter 4y ago
I agree with most of this except the last paragraph - "you won’t be unwittingly paying for blood minerals." Sure it's a problem, but it's being actively addressed. Petroleum's extremely rich and complex history has many dark sides too. Also, I don't own an EV so I may be wrong, but I don't believe ICE cars "terrifically convenient" when you can charge at home the vast majority of the time and not worry about oil changes.
- JohnFen 4y ago
  > it's being actively addressed Color me skeptical that anything real will be done about it. We haven't even managed to solve the same issue when it comes to things like IC manufacturing, clothing manufacturing, food production, etc., and they have been around a whole lot longer.
  - cinntaile 4y ago
    Cobalt is being phased out by several car manufacturers.
    - JohnFen 4y ago
      Which is a great start, but cobalt is hardly the only problematic ingredient.
- QuarterReptile 4y ago
  >but I don't believe ICE cars "terrifically convenient" when you can charge at home the vast majority of the time The nice thing about market activity is that we each have the power to make decisions about what is convenient. Upgrading the electrical service at my house to support charging would cost about as much as all the gas I've put into my car in the last 10 years. And about 1/4 of those miles are cross country (US) drives, where a charger at home wouldn't have done any good.
  - ToDougie 4y ago
    I wonder how many people do not have access to an outlet to charge overnight at their home.... I have been parking on the street or in a carport for almost a decade. I'm not sure my cleaning lady, gardener, pest control guy, dental hygienist, taco truck owner, mail carriers, etc. have anywhere they can park overnight and charge a vehicle.
    - JohnFen 4y ago
      > I wonder how many people do not have access to an outlet to charge overnight at their home.... A huge number! We can start with almost 100% of people who live in apartment buildings. The charging situation alone makes electric vehicles infeasible for me.
      - sleepybrett 4y ago
        I live in a 5 year old apt building in seattle. Currently nearly half the spaces in the parking garage have chargers. So builders are either listening to their clientele or perhaps regulations are forcing their hands. This is just a transitory timeframe. When gas cars were hitting the road there wasn't magically a gas station on every corner and a mechanic in every town. Just like always it's a bit of 'build it and they will come' and 'hurry up and build it already'. Hell at my office there is already conversations happening with the building about providing power into the bicycle cage to top off e-bikes.
        JohnFen 4y ago
        > I live in a 5 year old apt building in seattle. I could see this in new apartment buildings (at least the more expensive ones), but most apartment buildings aren't so new. With most of the existing ones I see around, adding chargers would be crazy expensive because you'd have to do a lot of concrete/asphalt work in order to install them. I don't see that happening except in the swankier buildings who have a budget.
        4y ago
- AtlasBarfed 4y ago
  Mass scale EVs will be lfp (no cobalt nickel) and sodium ion (not even lithium) Blood minerals will be for luxury uktralong range, etc. And even that is being addressed. And if sulfur chemistries hit production or solid state, look out The article is indeed fud.
  - JohnFen 4y ago
    Lithium has to go for practical reasons. There isn't enough of the stuff to replace all gas-burners with electrics.
aaroninsf 4y ago
This is, literally, propaganda from the petroleum industry, constructed entirely by someone paid to dress up their tooth-and-nail fight-to-the-death commitment to sunk cost investment and Teh Way of Life in the "sober, just asking questions" tone of a old rich white guy.
- schiffern 4y ago
  100% correct. The fact that people can't even detect this extremely obvious propaganda (let alone downvote when it's pointed out to them) is a troubling sign of declining critical thinking faculty.
sleepybrett 4y ago
> The current rules require automakers to average 49 miles per gallon (MPG) per vehicle, across their fleets, by 2026. I suppose your f-150 style trucks and SUV fleets don't have to meet this standard (I think the 2023 f-150 is 26mpg, the 2023 Escape is 31mpg) perhaps being classified as 'work vehicles'. Given how many of these I see in personal use I feel like this loophole must be closed. Perhaps personal cars that do not meet the standard need some kind of per mile tax.
anditherobot 4y ago
How would that affect the price of car fuel?

5 points by jollyllama 4y ago

I agree with most of this except the last paragraph - "you won’t be unwittingly paying for blood minerals." Sure it's a problem, but it's being actively addressed. Petroleum's extremely rich and complex history has many dark sides too. Also, I don't own an EV so I may be wrong, but I don't believe ICE cars "terrifically convenient" when you can charge at home the vast majority of the time and not worry about oil changes.

JohnFen 4y ago
> it's being actively addressed Color me skeptical that anything real will be done about it. We haven't even managed to solve the same issue when it comes to things like IC manufacturing, clothing manufacturing, food production, etc., and they have been around a whole lot longer.
- cinntaile 4y ago
  Cobalt is being phased out by several car manufacturers.
  - JohnFen 4y ago
    Which is a great start, but cobalt is hardly the only problematic ingredient.
QuarterReptile 4y ago
>but I don't believe ICE cars "terrifically convenient" when you can charge at home the vast majority of the time The nice thing about market activity is that we each have the power to make decisions about what is convenient. Upgrading the electrical service at my house to support charging would cost about as much as all the gas I've put into my car in the last 10 years. And about 1/4 of those miles are cross country (US) drives, where a charger at home wouldn't have done any good.
- ToDougie 4y ago
  I wonder how many people do not have access to an outlet to charge overnight at their home.... I have been parking on the street or in a carport for almost a decade. I'm not sure my cleaning lady, gardener, pest control guy, dental hygienist, taco truck owner, mail carriers, etc. have anywhere they can park overnight and charge a vehicle.
  - JohnFen 4y ago
    > I wonder how many people do not have access to an outlet to charge overnight at their home.... A huge number! We can start with almost 100% of people who live in apartment buildings. The charging situation alone makes electric vehicles infeasible for me.
    - sleepybrett 4y ago
      I live in a 5 year old apt building in seattle. Currently nearly half the spaces in the parking garage have chargers. So builders are either listening to their clientele or perhaps regulations are forcing their hands. This is just a transitory timeframe. When gas cars were hitting the road there wasn't magically a gas station on every corner and a mechanic in every town. Just like always it's a bit of 'build it and they will come' and 'hurry up and build it already'. Hell at my office there is already conversations happening with the building about providing power into the bicycle cage to top off e-bikes.
      - JohnFen 4y ago
        > I live in a 5 year old apt building in seattle. I could see this in new apartment buildings (at least the more expensive ones), but most apartment buildings aren't so new. With most of the existing ones I see around, adding chargers would be crazy expensive because you'd have to do a lot of concrete/asphalt work in order to install them. I don't see that happening except in the swankier buildings who have a budget.
        4y ago
AtlasBarfed 4y ago
Mass scale EVs will be lfp (no cobalt nickel) and sodium ion (not even lithium) Blood minerals will be for luxury uktralong range, etc. And even that is being addressed. And if sulfur chemistries hit production or solid state, look out The article is indeed fud.
- JohnFen 4y ago
  Lithium has to go for practical reasons. There isn't enough of the stuff to replace all gas-burners with electrics.

aaroninsf 4y ago

This is, literally, propaganda from the petroleum industry, constructed entirely by someone paid to dress up their tooth-and-nail fight-to-the-death commitment to sunk cost investment and Teh Way of Life in the "sober, just asking questions" tone of a old rich white guy.

schiffern 4y ago
100% correct. The fact that people can't even detect this extremely obvious propaganda (let alone downvote when it's pointed out to them) is a troubling sign of declining critical thinking faculty.

sleepybrett 4y ago

> The current rules require automakers to average 49 miles per gallon (MPG) per vehicle, across their fleets, by 2026. I suppose your f-150 style trucks and SUV fleets don't have to meet this standard (I think the 2023 f-150 is 26mpg, the 2023 Escape is 31mpg) perhaps being classified as 'work vehicles'. Given how many of these I see in personal use I feel like this loophole must be closed. Perhaps personal cars that do not meet the standard need some kind of per mile tax.

anditherobot 4y ago

How would that affect the price of car fuel?