2 ms·

I've seen tons of articles about impacts of fossil fuel production on land. I just don't see why one mineral being pulled out of the ground seems taboo to talk

I've seen tons of articles about impacts of fossil fuel production on land. I just don't see why one mineral being pulled out of the ground seems taboo to talk about because it's potential propaganda, could it not go the other way as well with that logic? I mean, if we scaled any higher and did replace fossil fuels, would mining lithium/rare metals and the lifespan of batteries/PV panels be worse than mining nat. gas? These are serious questions that would benefit from a serious calculation.

jeffbee 3y ago
It's because the scale is completely disproportionate. The largest proposed lithium mine in the world will disturb 6000 acres, a negligible area. In the United Stats alone there are five million acres scraped flat for oil and gas production and 25 million more acres under lease. The entire meme about how lithium mining is a relevant environmental disturbance has been invented out of whole cloth by oil companies. These are not, in fact, serious questions.
- MrOwnPut 3y ago
  But aren't the scales of production/output disproportionate as well? What would the impact of mining lithium be if it did need to meet the needs that oil and gas is currently serving? Comparing the effects of lithium mining vs nat. gas fracking on the land at the expected full scale needs an unbiased approach. Not to mention the supply and humanitarian issues.
  - jeffbee 3y ago
    The thing you are currently doing is known as JAQing off. Lithium is not comparable to oil and gas. An EV contains a few kilos of lithium, which is perfectly recyclable and not consumed. Meanwhile the average American motorist buys and burns 2 metric tons of motor fuel every year.
    - MrOwnPut 3y ago
      No it's called the socratic method. You've ignored the meat of my question and now try to label it as bad faith I assume with that term. I was asking about the scale of lithium mining if it were to replace nat. gas and coal for energy production. Not just EVs. Have you seen a study of the projected impact of that?
      - jeffbee 3y ago
        My dude, did you just compare your behavior in this thread to Socrates?
        MrOwnPut 3y ago
        No my dude, I referenced the term socratic method. Many people use the method everyday without comparing themselves to the man personally. When you use the scientific method, you aren't comparing yourself to Francis Bacon are you? Also, you seemed to have veered off topic, please reply to the last sentence of my last reply if you wish to continue talking to me.
        wolfram74 3y ago
        If you're using the socratic method, you're not debating, you're teaching. One interpretation is you have a stance and you're trying to get someone there and not particularly interested in what they have to say.
        MrOwnPut 3y ago
        No it means you are trying to get them to clarify their stance and explain their reasoning so you can understand them better.

jeffbee 3y ago

It's because the scale is completely disproportionate. The largest proposed lithium mine in the world will disturb 6000 acres, a negligible area. In the United Stats alone there are five million acres scraped flat for oil and gas production and 25 million more acres under lease. The entire meme about how lithium mining is a relevant environmental disturbance has been invented out of whole cloth by oil companies. These are not, in fact, serious questions.

MrOwnPut 3y ago
But aren't the scales of production/output disproportionate as well? What would the impact of mining lithium be if it did need to meet the needs that oil and gas is currently serving? Comparing the effects of lithium mining vs nat. gas fracking on the land at the expected full scale needs an unbiased approach. Not to mention the supply and humanitarian issues.
- jeffbee 3y ago
  The thing you are currently doing is known as JAQing off. Lithium is not comparable to oil and gas. An EV contains a few kilos of lithium, which is perfectly recyclable and not consumed. Meanwhile the average American motorist buys and burns 2 metric tons of motor fuel every year.
  - MrOwnPut 3y ago
    No it's called the socratic method. You've ignored the meat of my question and now try to label it as bad faith I assume with that term. I was asking about the scale of lithium mining if it were to replace nat. gas and coal for energy production. Not just EVs. Have you seen a study of the projected impact of that?
    - jeffbee 3y ago
      My dude, did you just compare your behavior in this thread to Socrates?
      - MrOwnPut 3y ago
        No my dude, I referenced the term socratic method. Many people use the method everyday without comparing themselves to the man personally. When you use the scientific method, you aren't comparing yourself to Francis Bacon are you? Also, you seemed to have veered off topic, please reply to the last sentence of my last reply if you wish to continue talking to me.
        wolfram74 3y ago
        If you're using the socratic method, you're not debating, you're teaching. One interpretation is you have a stance and you're trying to get someone there and not particularly interested in what they have to say.
        MrOwnPut 3y ago
        No it means you are trying to get them to clarify their stance and explain their reasoning so you can understand them better.