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These are all problems and we need a better solution that includes some sort of oversight over the care of these folks. But the solution can't be that severely

These are all problems and we need a better solution that includes some sort of oversight over the care of these folks. But the solution can't be that severely mentally ill people can say NO to treatment and then are allowed to basically threaten anyone on the sidewalk 24/7 and/or camp because they refuse housing. This is just not working and the 98% of the rest of us have had enough. There needs to be a way to get them help, with oversight from someone that advocates for them, but without a mechanism where they can just say no. They are mentally ill and not competent to make these decisions.

deleted 4y ago
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account42 4y ago
> There needs to be a way to get them help Cool it with the doublespeak. If you don't let them say NO you are helping yourself and not them. This is hardly the first time I have seen calls to "get them help" when really it's all about getting rid of undesirables. > because they refuse housing That too should result in us investingating why they refuse that housing rather than forcing it (or worse) upon them. > They are mentally ill and not competent to make these decisions. And that kind of thought has lead plenty of abuse.
- l33t233372 4y ago
  > That too should result in us investingating why they refuse that housing We’re talking about people with severe mental illness. They are not able to reason effectively and rationally.
  - habinero 4y ago
    That's flat out not true.
    - l33t233372 4y ago
      I’m not sure what you mean. Not being able to reason effectively is basically the definition of severe mental illness.
      - habinero 4y ago
        That's a frankly stale misconception based on old prejudice and Hollywood tropes. It's unmoored from reality. Mental illness is not a monolith and it does not present the same way for different people. It also doesn't mean you lose any ability to reason or understand what's being done to you. I would highly recommend you refrain from commenting on this topic until you can correct your broader misunderstandings. Sharing misinformation and FUD helps nobody.
        l33t233372 4y ago
        > Mental illness is not a monolith and it does not present the same way for different people. I agree. Of course it isn’t. However, saying that people affected by severe mental illness are able to think clearly and rationally is almost definitionally false. If their ability to think clearly and rationally were not afflicted, they wouldn’t be experiencing a mental disorder. Further, just saying that I have misunderstandings, am spreading FUD, and should stop commenting without yourself providing cogent reasons why I am mistaken helps nobody.
  - account42 4y ago
    I'm sure its quite convenient to make that assumption. "They are insane so I don't need to listen to their concerns." Very current year culture.
sp332 4y ago
I get it, there are people you want to disappear so you never have to look at them again. Declaring these people mentally ill and letting sanitariums kidnap them off the street for profit is very appealing.
- outside1234 4y ago
  Definitely not saying that. We just can't continue pretending that the current approach is working. They need treatment.

deleted 4y ago

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account42 4y ago

> There needs to be a way to get them help Cool it with the doublespeak. If you don't let them say NO you are helping yourself and not them. This is hardly the first time I have seen calls to "get them help" when really it's all about getting rid of undesirables. > because they refuse housing That too should result in us investingating why they refuse that housing rather than forcing it (or worse) upon them. > They are mentally ill and not competent to make these decisions. And that kind of thought has lead plenty of abuse.

l33t233372 4y ago
> That too should result in us investingating why they refuse that housing We’re talking about people with severe mental illness. They are not able to reason effectively and rationally.
- habinero 4y ago
  That's flat out not true.
  - l33t233372 4y ago
    I’m not sure what you mean. Not being able to reason effectively is basically the definition of severe mental illness.
    - habinero 4y ago
      That's a frankly stale misconception based on old prejudice and Hollywood tropes. It's unmoored from reality. Mental illness is not a monolith and it does not present the same way for different people. It also doesn't mean you lose any ability to reason or understand what's being done to you. I would highly recommend you refrain from commenting on this topic until you can correct your broader misunderstandings. Sharing misinformation and FUD helps nobody.
      - l33t233372 4y ago
        > Mental illness is not a monolith and it does not present the same way for different people. I agree. Of course it isn’t. However, saying that people affected by severe mental illness are able to think clearly and rationally is almost definitionally false. If their ability to think clearly and rationally were not afflicted, they wouldn’t be experiencing a mental disorder. Further, just saying that I have misunderstandings, am spreading FUD, and should stop commenting without yourself providing cogent reasons why I am mistaken helps nobody.
- account42 4y ago
  I'm sure its quite convenient to make that assumption. "They are insane so I don't need to listen to their concerns." Very current year culture.

sp332 4y ago

I get it, there are people you want to disappear so you never have to look at them again. Declaring these people mentally ill and letting sanitariums kidnap them off the street for profit is very appealing.

outside1234 4y ago
Definitely not saying that. We just can't continue pretending that the current approach is working. They need treatment.