4 ms·

Isn't this the same old discussion that was recently ignited again by the Mr beast's glaucoma video? The US is a country where some people just can't afford not

by bjoli 4y ago

Isn't this the same old discussion that was recently ignited again by the Mr beast's glaucoma video? The US is a country where some people just can't afford not to be blind (or mentally ill). Their largest hope is for a millionaire influencer/Deus ex machina to appear and pay ther treatment.

ixtli 4y ago
the media apparatus regularly turns these into feel-good stories as well. its irresolvable imo
giantg2 4y ago
There are other options depending on the circumstances, such as Medicare, Medicaid, CHIP, pharmaceutical assistance programs, etc.
- Broken_Hippo 4y ago
  Which are hard or stressful to get qualified for if you have your mental abilities with you, and you might not qualify for any of it (CHIP is for children, isn't it?). They can be almost impossible if you don't, and it isn't like someone is going to walk you through it. And most of these programs aren't going to do anything if you aren't already in crisis mode - disability might be the biggest offender here. You have a 24 month wait for medicare at that point, nevermind that you are obviously out of work at that point. You might qualify for medicaid, sure, but might not. And to be fair, most of my knowledge on this is personal: My ex was on disability for mental illness. I don't know how well he got along after we split.
  - giantg2 4y ago
    "and you might not qualify for any of it (CHIP is for children, isn't it?)." Which is why I said depending on the circumstances. "They can be almost impossible if you don't," The example give was glaucoma, so I was speaking to that. If one has mental issues, they could use an advocate (friend, family, or charity). If their impairment is too severe for that, they could have a guardian created by the court (still room for abuse here, but less so than acting without the extra step of a court). "and it isn't like someone is going to walk you through it." There are charities that do this very thing. Much of my knowledge also comes from personal experiences. The real point of discussion on this topic is somewhat hidden. The question is at what point should someone be considered a ward of the state - where they no longer have the capacity to decide things for themselves, and what restrictions the state should place on them (institutionalization, vs outpatient treatment, etc).
    - zdragnar 4y ago
      Depending on the state, there are social workers whose sole job is to reach out to and guide homeless people towards these and other programs. The experience related to me by one of these people is that the mentally ill homeless tend to not trust social workers, believing (wrongly) that they'll be institutionalized if they accept any help at all. The sad result is that they only way many of these people will get any health care is if they are, in fact, institutionalized, because they refuse every other effort to get it.
- kevingadd 4y ago
  Getting onto the assistance programs and staying on them if you're disabled in any way is a huge ordeal even under the best of circumstances. I can only imagine how hard it is if you're homeless or severely mentally ill. I don't think it's adequate as-is.
- bjoli 4y ago
  That is just individualizing a societal problem. A sick person has already qualified for care. The U.S. has, by FAR, the highest healthcare spending in the world, yet some people are to poor to not be blind. Chances are that these people don't have the social capital to know how to go about getting medicaid (...) or may be disqualified because of other reasons. Cataract surgery takes, what, 10 minutes and has an average ROI of about 40000% (taken out of my posterior), which is what makes it extra clear that it is a failing of society.
Cthulhu_ 4y ago
Wasn't there a guy that started a new pharmacy with affordable medication? And some states have started doing things like price caps for insulin. It's coming, but it requires capitalism to be kept in check by government. Vote with your... er... vote.
- jonhohle 4y ago
  How is capitalism kept in check if anything when bribes^H^H^H^H^H^Hlobbying ensure the most resources and connected will always fall on the beneficial side of any legislation? With the exception of several dozen conglomerates that should be kept in check, deregulating, imho, would do more for competition then allowing those conglomerates to direct even more restrictive regulation. The reason insulin is expensive isn’t due to the cost to manufacture. No startup will run to disrupt a market that’s price capped, entrenched, and has government backed pharma ready to squash any new entrants.
- 93po 4y ago
  this? https://costplusdrugs.com/ https://costplusdrugs.com/
jsorrel 4y ago
>Their largest hope is for a millionaire influencer/Deus ex machina to appear and pay ther treatment. I try not to live for savior fantasies like that, but as a person with PTSD that's accomplished a number of remarkable things to overcome an unfortunately adverse background, having an isolating disorder that requires a complex arrangement of financial stability, social acceptance, safety, and mentoring/nurturance which would be easiest to attain and maintain with a big pile of cash... I feel trapped. I worked at a game developer when I was 16, my peers went off to achieve great things, and I can't stay stable enough to not lose everything on an annual basis so I can have the money to get the help I need to be stable. Ultimately it's on me to figure out, but it's hard to see so many resources squandered in this world to fruitless, meaningless, or even harmful ends and know in my heart that I could make the world a better place if I were the one "wasting" them pursuing my basic humanity enough to thrive.
- ada1981 4y ago
  I relate to this deeply
  - jsorrel 4y ago
    Introducing a revolutionary social venture that empowers the disadvantaged and disabled to reach their full potential by connecting them with high-performing professionals as mentors. Our mission is to bridge the gap between those who have access to resources and those who do not, creating a more equitable society. Our model is simple: microinvestments fund the rehabilitation and development of mentees, while mentors donate their time and expertise. In return, mentors receive royalties collected from mentees after receiving services. This model not only provides the resources needed to help our mentees become productive members of society but also incentivizes mentors to contribute to our cause. Our platform is built on the belief that everyone deserves a chance to succeed, regardless of their circumstances. We believe that our innovative approach has the potential to revolutionize the way we approach social change and help create a more equitable society. We are seeking support from the HackerNews community to help us scale our operations and make a difference in the lives of those who have been marginalized. Your investment will help us to reach more people, provide greater opportunities for our mentees, and ultimately create a better future for all. Join us in making a difference in the world by investing in our social venture. Together, we can create a more equitable society and empower those who have been marginalized.
nisegami 4y ago
A huge factor you're overlooking here is that a lot of the time there simply is no effective treatment.
- bjoli 4y ago
  So these people should just stay ill as decided by fate? You can't decide your genes or luck or whatever, and you shouldn't be granted treatment just because you happened to have money. Social mobility stinks in the U.S., meaning the best thing to do to ensure you will get healthcare is to have rich parents.
kayodelycaon 4y ago
One of my friends put it this way: Being sick is illegal in the US and medical bills are fines for that.

by bjoli 4y ago

ixtli 4y ago

the media apparatus regularly turns these into feel-good stories as well. its irresolvable imo

giantg2 4y ago

There are other options depending on the circumstances, such as Medicare, Medicaid, CHIP, pharmaceutical assistance programs, etc.

Broken_Hippo 4y ago
Which are hard or stressful to get qualified for if you have your mental abilities with you, and you might not qualify for any of it (CHIP is for children, isn't it?). They can be almost impossible if you don't, and it isn't like someone is going to walk you through it. And most of these programs aren't going to do anything if you aren't already in crisis mode - disability might be the biggest offender here. You have a 24 month wait for medicare at that point, nevermind that you are obviously out of work at that point. You might qualify for medicaid, sure, but might not. And to be fair, most of my knowledge on this is personal: My ex was on disability for mental illness. I don't know how well he got along after we split.
- giantg2 4y ago
  "and you might not qualify for any of it (CHIP is for children, isn't it?)." Which is why I said depending on the circumstances. "They can be almost impossible if you don't," The example give was glaucoma, so I was speaking to that. If one has mental issues, they could use an advocate (friend, family, or charity). If their impairment is too severe for that, they could have a guardian created by the court (still room for abuse here, but less so than acting without the extra step of a court). "and it isn't like someone is going to walk you through it." There are charities that do this very thing. Much of my knowledge also comes from personal experiences. The real point of discussion on this topic is somewhat hidden. The question is at what point should someone be considered a ward of the state - where they no longer have the capacity to decide things for themselves, and what restrictions the state should place on them (institutionalization, vs outpatient treatment, etc).
  - zdragnar 4y ago
    Depending on the state, there are social workers whose sole job is to reach out to and guide homeless people towards these and other programs. The experience related to me by one of these people is that the mentally ill homeless tend to not trust social workers, believing (wrongly) that they'll be institutionalized if they accept any help at all. The sad result is that they only way many of these people will get any health care is if they are, in fact, institutionalized, because they refuse every other effort to get it.
kevingadd 4y ago
Getting onto the assistance programs and staying on them if you're disabled in any way is a huge ordeal even under the best of circumstances. I can only imagine how hard it is if you're homeless or severely mentally ill. I don't think it's adequate as-is.
bjoli 4y ago
That is just individualizing a societal problem. A sick person has already qualified for care. The U.S. has, by FAR, the highest healthcare spending in the world, yet some people are to poor to not be blind. Chances are that these people don't have the social capital to know how to go about getting medicaid (...) or may be disqualified because of other reasons. Cataract surgery takes, what, 10 minutes and has an average ROI of about 40000% (taken out of my posterior), which is what makes it extra clear that it is a failing of society.

Cthulhu_ 4y ago

Wasn't there a guy that started a new pharmacy with affordable medication? And some states have started doing things like price caps for insulin. It's coming, but it requires capitalism to be kept in check by government. Vote with your... er... vote.

jonhohle 4y ago
How is capitalism kept in check if anything when bribes^H^H^H^H^H^Hlobbying ensure the most resources and connected will always fall on the beneficial side of any legislation? With the exception of several dozen conglomerates that should be kept in check, deregulating, imho, would do more for competition then allowing those conglomerates to direct even more restrictive regulation. The reason insulin is expensive isn’t due to the cost to manufacture. No startup will run to disrupt a market that’s price capped, entrenched, and has government backed pharma ready to squash any new entrants.
93po 4y ago
this? https://costplusdrugs.com/ https://costplusdrugs.com/

jsorrel 4y ago

>Their largest hope is for a millionaire influencer/Deus ex machina to appear and pay ther treatment. I try not to live for savior fantasies like that, but as a person with PTSD that's accomplished a number of remarkable things to overcome an unfortunately adverse background, having an isolating disorder that requires a complex arrangement of financial stability, social acceptance, safety, and mentoring/nurturance which would be easiest to attain and maintain with a big pile of cash... I feel trapped. I worked at a game developer when I was 16, my peers went off to achieve great things, and I can't stay stable enough to not lose everything on an annual basis so I can have the money to get the help I need to be stable. Ultimately it's on me to figure out, but it's hard to see so many resources squandered in this world to fruitless, meaningless, or even harmful ends and know in my heart that I could make the world a better place if I were the one "wasting" them pursuing my basic humanity enough to thrive.

ada1981 4y ago
I relate to this deeply
- jsorrel 4y ago
  Introducing a revolutionary social venture that empowers the disadvantaged and disabled to reach their full potential by connecting them with high-performing professionals as mentors. Our mission is to bridge the gap between those who have access to resources and those who do not, creating a more equitable society. Our model is simple: microinvestments fund the rehabilitation and development of mentees, while mentors donate their time and expertise. In return, mentors receive royalties collected from mentees after receiving services. This model not only provides the resources needed to help our mentees become productive members of society but also incentivizes mentors to contribute to our cause. Our platform is built on the belief that everyone deserves a chance to succeed, regardless of their circumstances. We believe that our innovative approach has the potential to revolutionize the way we approach social change and help create a more equitable society. We are seeking support from the HackerNews community to help us scale our operations and make a difference in the lives of those who have been marginalized. Your investment will help us to reach more people, provide greater opportunities for our mentees, and ultimately create a better future for all. Join us in making a difference in the world by investing in our social venture. Together, we can create a more equitable society and empower those who have been marginalized.

nisegami 4y ago

A huge factor you're overlooking here is that a lot of the time there simply is no effective treatment.

bjoli 4y ago
So these people should just stay ill as decided by fate? You can't decide your genes or luck or whatever, and you shouldn't be granted treatment just because you happened to have money. Social mobility stinks in the U.S., meaning the best thing to do to ensure you will get healthcare is to have rich parents.

kayodelycaon 4y ago

One of my friends put it this way: Being sick is illegal in the US and medical bills are fines for that.