5 ms·

Since people writing HTML and CSS started calling themselves "software engineers", the "engineering" word lost all meaning already. You're fighting a losing bat

Since people writing HTML and CSS started calling themselves "software engineers", the "engineering" word lost all meaning already. You're fighting a losing battle here.

zffr 4y ago
What’s wrong with considering HTML and CSS to be a part of software engineering?
- leeoniya 4y ago
  software engineering probably requires at minimum, using conditional logic, using a debugger, looking at stack traces and a profiler, and working with data structures / algorithms. only doing HTML and CSS doesnt have any of this. things are different once you add JS/TS though.
  - chiefalchemist 4y ago
    The tools aren't as relevant as the intent. Engineers are intentional. They understand the gotchas, nuances, subtleties, etc. and proactively generate outputs to match. If nothing else engineering is mitigating balloon grabs. Programmers? Developers? They're far more reactive and without intent far more likely to do balloon grabs.
    - jameshart 4y ago
      #usernamechecksout
    - sethaurus 4y ago
      What is a "balloon grab" in this context?
      - chiefalchemist 4y ago
        You do X - typically hastily - and unintended consequences (read: bugs) Y and/or Z pop out somewhere else.
  - karaterobot 4y ago
    > software engineering probably requires at minimum, using conditional logic, using a debugger, looking at stack traces and a profiler, and working with data structures / algorithms. Forgive me, that feels like a post-hoc rationalization of a gut feeling. I would have said engineering is a set of practices and approaches for solving problems within a framework of requirements and constraints. That's rough, but you get the idea. Software engineering is a sub-discipline of that which is related to the realm of software, just as mechanical engineering and genetic engineering and (perhaps) prompt engineering are just flavors defined by the medium. Software engineering isn't defined by the use of some particular set of tools, I don't think any flavor of engineering is.
- deleted 4y ago
  [deleted]
jameshart 4y ago
The problem with the witchcraft practitioners is not that they are calling themselves engineers - it’s that they are practicing witchcraft. Or rather… that they are peddling their ‘knowledge’ of witchcraft as having granted them the power to make an LLM perform useful work. When what they have is a half-baked set of herbal remedies and magic words handed down (“Greg Rutkowski”) that, if they are any more effective than just placebo, it’s purely because of luck.

Since people writing HTML and CSS started calling themselves "software engineers", the "engineering" word lost all meaning already. You're fighting a losing battle here.

zffr 4y ago

What’s wrong with considering HTML and CSS to be a part of software engineering?

leeoniya 4y ago
software engineering probably requires at minimum, using conditional logic, using a debugger, looking at stack traces and a profiler, and working with data structures / algorithms. only doing HTML and CSS doesnt have any of this. things are different once you add JS/TS though.
- chiefalchemist 4y ago
  The tools aren't as relevant as the intent. Engineers are intentional. They understand the gotchas, nuances, subtleties, etc. and proactively generate outputs to match. If nothing else engineering is mitigating balloon grabs. Programmers? Developers? They're far more reactive and without intent far more likely to do balloon grabs.
  - jameshart 4y ago
    #usernamechecksout
  - sethaurus 4y ago
    What is a "balloon grab" in this context?
    - chiefalchemist 4y ago
      You do X - typically hastily - and unintended consequences (read: bugs) Y and/or Z pop out somewhere else.
- karaterobot 4y ago
  > software engineering probably requires at minimum, using conditional logic, using a debugger, looking at stack traces and a profiler, and working with data structures / algorithms. Forgive me, that feels like a post-hoc rationalization of a gut feeling. I would have said engineering is a set of practices and approaches for solving problems within a framework of requirements and constraints. That's rough, but you get the idea. Software engineering is a sub-discipline of that which is related to the realm of software, just as mechanical engineering and genetic engineering and (perhaps) prompt engineering are just flavors defined by the medium. Software engineering isn't defined by the use of some particular set of tools, I don't think any flavor of engineering is.
deleted 4y ago
[deleted]

jameshart 4y ago

The problem with the witchcraft practitioners is not that they are calling themselves engineers - it’s that they are practicing witchcraft. Or rather… that they are peddling their ‘knowledge’ of witchcraft as having granted them the power to make an LLM perform useful work. When what they have is a half-baked set of herbal remedies and magic words handed down (“Greg Rutkowski”) that, if they are any more effective than just placebo, it’s purely because of luck.