4 ms·

The whole US society seems more puritan while more capitalist at the same time, seen from this side of the pond. It’s a paradox I can’t really explain, any clue

by nickpp 4y ago

The whole US society seems more puritan while more capitalist at the same time, seen from this side of the pond. It’s a paradox I can’t really explain, any clues?

LargoLasskhyfv 4y ago
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Protestant_work_ethic https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Protestant_work_ethic Besides that: 'There is no such thing as society!'
dpflan 4y ago
Perhaps it’s as easy as “ethics and laws are not the same thing”. One can profit either way, but unethical profiteering may not be prevented by a law.
robertlagrant 4y ago
You're conflating capitalism and greed. Plenty of greedy people in non-capitalist systems.
- nickpp 4y ago
  > Plenty of greedy people in non-capitalist systems. Totally agreed. But I am not placing any moral value on either greed or capitalism. I would think, however, that capitalists would not ignore such an obvious profit center as the sex industry. Thus my bafflement.
  - robertlagrant 4y ago
    > I would think, however, that capitalists would not ignore such an obvious profit center as the sex industry Because you're conflating capitalism and greed. Capitalism doesn't mean "do anything for money". It means "as much as possible, people get to decide among themselves how to allocate their money and time". Some of them will invest in anything, just as people in non-capitalist countries. Most will only invest in certain things.
    - nickpp 4y ago
      But look at how investment in weed, which was once considered "drugs == bad", flourished after legalization, with ETFs and such. Lots of sex work, including porn, is legal afaik. However banks and other civilian gate holders (Apple AppStore, etc) keep stifling investment in it.
      - robertlagrant 4y ago
        I'm sorry, I don't see how that relates to what I was saying.
    - JohnFen 4y ago
      > Capitalism doesn't mean "do anything for money". In the abstract, perhaps not. The way it exists in the US, though, it means exactly that.
      - nickpp 4y ago
        This very thread is exactly about how, in US, it doesn’t.
  - cowl 4y ago
    What you missing is that by chosing this obvious profit center they risk a much larger profit center because the backlash. It's not a moral thing, it's a calculated choice. That's why who takes this risks also charges a much higher fee to make up for the opprtunity cost in other areas.
  - worik 4y ago
    > But I am not placing any moral value on either greed or capitalism That is a missed opportunity * Capitalism: A system where who owns resources matters more tan who needs them is a morally bankrupt system. A system where starvation and homelessness is an acceptable outcome * Greed. Greed is bad for everybody. Concentrates scarce resources where they are not needed, that too is moral bankruptcy
    - LargoLasskhyfv 4y ago
      https://duckduckgo.com/?t=ftsa&q=Greed+is+good!+Greed+works https://duckduckgo.com/?t=ftsa&q=Greed+is+good!+Greed+works! Edit: Quoted from memory of https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wall_Street_(1987_film) https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wall_Street_(1987_film)
    - nickpp 4y ago
      Funny enough my country was starving under communism but we are living in plenty under capitalism. Since I lived under the alternative and I have seen its evilness, I will take capitalism any day - the very system that allowed and incentivized us to create those resources you are eyeing in the first place. As for greed, I have yet to meet a person more greedy than the ones claiming to know where to direct those scarce resources they did not create, if only we’d give them the power to do so. Such high morals too, unlike those "morally bankrupt" capitalists who greedily built businesses, jobs, countless goods and services to only enslave us and enrich themselves, obviously.
      - robertlagrant 4y ago
        I'm glad you chimed in with this. This is the point: capitalism knows self-interest exists, and creates a system to harness it. Communism and similar pretend greed doesn't exist, and creates overly powerful central bodies to make everything fair.
- deleted 4y ago
  [deleted]
edgyquant 4y ago
US society isn’t some anti-sex dystopia. Its average compared to the rest of the world, It’s just Europe that is super pro-nudity etc and projects. Like everything else they think they are objectively right in their beliefs and systems.
- nickpp 4y ago
  Not allowing sex apps on AppStores and banks and credit cards refusing to process sex-related transactions seems pretty anti-sex to me. Also getting all bent out of shape at a the image of a nipple, breast or pubic hair while not batting an eye at a person dying in evening TV movies seem a bit unbalanced.
- JohnFen 4y ago
  > US society isn’t some anti-sex dystopia Not a dystopia, but certainly US society has, shall we say, a very strange and complicated relationship with sex and nudity.
realfeel78 4y ago
You aren't paying attention: https://www.wired.com/story/twitter-porn-block-germany-age-verification/ https://www.wired.com/story/twitter-porn-block-germany-age-v...

by nickpp 4y ago

The whole US society seems more puritan while more capitalist at the same time, seen from this side of the pond. It’s a paradox I can’t really explain, any clues?

LargoLasskhyfv 4y ago

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Protestant_work_ethic https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Protestant_work_ethic Besides that: 'There is no such thing as society!'

dpflan 4y ago

Perhaps it’s as easy as “ethics and laws are not the same thing”. One can profit either way, but unethical profiteering may not be prevented by a law.

robertlagrant 4y ago

You're conflating capitalism and greed. Plenty of greedy people in non-capitalist systems.

nickpp 4y ago
> Plenty of greedy people in non-capitalist systems. Totally agreed. But I am not placing any moral value on either greed or capitalism. I would think, however, that capitalists would not ignore such an obvious profit center as the sex industry. Thus my bafflement.
- robertlagrant 4y ago
  > I would think, however, that capitalists would not ignore such an obvious profit center as the sex industry Because you're conflating capitalism and greed. Capitalism doesn't mean "do anything for money". It means "as much as possible, people get to decide among themselves how to allocate their money and time". Some of them will invest in anything, just as people in non-capitalist countries. Most will only invest in certain things.
  - nickpp 4y ago
    But look at how investment in weed, which was once considered "drugs == bad", flourished after legalization, with ETFs and such. Lots of sex work, including porn, is legal afaik. However banks and other civilian gate holders (Apple AppStore, etc) keep stifling investment in it.
    - robertlagrant 4y ago
      I'm sorry, I don't see how that relates to what I was saying.
  - JohnFen 4y ago
    > Capitalism doesn't mean "do anything for money". In the abstract, perhaps not. The way it exists in the US, though, it means exactly that.
    - nickpp 4y ago
      This very thread is exactly about how, in US, it doesn’t.
- cowl 4y ago
  What you missing is that by chosing this obvious profit center they risk a much larger profit center because the backlash. It's not a moral thing, it's a calculated choice. That's why who takes this risks also charges a much higher fee to make up for the opprtunity cost in other areas.
- worik 4y ago
  > But I am not placing any moral value on either greed or capitalism That is a missed opportunity * Capitalism: A system where who owns resources matters more tan who needs them is a morally bankrupt system. A system where starvation and homelessness is an acceptable outcome * Greed. Greed is bad for everybody. Concentrates scarce resources where they are not needed, that too is moral bankruptcy
  - LargoLasskhyfv 4y ago
    https://duckduckgo.com/?t=ftsa&q=Greed+is+good!+Greed+works https://duckduckgo.com/?t=ftsa&q=Greed+is+good!+Greed+works! Edit: Quoted from memory of https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wall_Street_(1987_film) https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wall_Street_(1987_film)
  - nickpp 4y ago
    Funny enough my country was starving under communism but we are living in plenty under capitalism. Since I lived under the alternative and I have seen its evilness, I will take capitalism any day - the very system that allowed and incentivized us to create those resources you are eyeing in the first place. As for greed, I have yet to meet a person more greedy than the ones claiming to know where to direct those scarce resources they did not create, if only we’d give them the power to do so. Such high morals too, unlike those "morally bankrupt" capitalists who greedily built businesses, jobs, countless goods and services to only enslave us and enrich themselves, obviously.
    - robertlagrant 4y ago
      I'm glad you chimed in with this. This is the point: capitalism knows self-interest exists, and creates a system to harness it. Communism and similar pretend greed doesn't exist, and creates overly powerful central bodies to make everything fair.
deleted 4y ago
[deleted]

edgyquant 4y ago

US society isn’t some anti-sex dystopia. Its average compared to the rest of the world, It’s just Europe that is super pro-nudity etc and projects. Like everything else they think they are objectively right in their beliefs and systems.

nickpp 4y ago
Not allowing sex apps on AppStores and banks and credit cards refusing to process sex-related transactions seems pretty anti-sex to me. Also getting all bent out of shape at a the image of a nipple, breast or pubic hair while not batting an eye at a person dying in evening TV movies seem a bit unbalanced.
JohnFen 4y ago
> US society isn’t some anti-sex dystopia Not a dystopia, but certainly US society has, shall we say, a very strange and complicated relationship with sex and nudity.

realfeel78 4y ago

You aren't paying attention: https://www.wired.com/story/twitter-porn-block-germany-age-verification/ https://www.wired.com/story/twitter-porn-block-germany-age-v...