7 ms·

Stallman reminds me more of Steve Jobs than anyone else does: - 70's wunderkind - simple, clear belief about what computing should be - realized his v

Stallman reminds me more of Steve Jobs than anyone else does: - 70's wunderkind - simple, clear belief about what computing should be - realized his vision, creating permanent improvement enjoyed directly or indirectly by every computer user - uncompromising in his determination to control his environment Personally I believe he has some major blind spots -- so did Jobs. The failure of this community to hold him in comparable regard is just that, a failure.

logain2006 15y ago
Wow. I think that's the stupidest thing I've heard in a while. Yes, Steve Jobs, the guy who wants absolute control over every single device that he sells you FOR MONEY - on both software AND hardware level is JUST LIKE Stallaman. I have to say, the quality of HN has gone so downhill recently, I might have to seek an alternative community.
- jeffreyg 15y ago
  If people were to pick one reason HN has 'gone downhill', disrespectful comment replies would top the list. A controversial feature request- when a new account reaches a negative karma level within a certain period, HN will display all other usernames associated with the IP address of the throwaway.
  - logain2006 15y ago
    I disagree. Disrespectful comments are just a symptom of the disease. The disease is people saying unbelievably idiotic things, with no regard to fact or logic. Now, if no one were to post retarded bullshit like "Steve Jobs is so much like Stallman", it would be damn difficult for me to disrespect him/her. PS - The mere fact that many people decided to downvote the obvious facts in my previous post just says this place has quickly managed to fill up with fucking idiots.
    - rhizome 15y ago
      You're making it worse.
      - logain2OO6 15y ago
        @rhizome: Please return to sticking your head back up your ass and pretending that what you do on Rails is actually "coding".
      - logain2006 15y ago
        @rhizome Please return to sticking your head back up your ass and pretending that what you do on Rails is "coding".
    - deleted 15y ago
      [deleted]
  - rbanffy 15y ago
    I'd suggest something different. Reduce the value of throwaway logins by making it impossible to comment for, say, 40 days. We can then modulate the quarantine period according to the level of hostility present on the site. Of coursesmart, flagging and hellbanning remains as usual.
    - jeffreyg 15y ago
      Yeah. My idea isn't great, just a frustrated response to this person who claims to have been here for a long time yet still feels it's appropriate to make offensive posts about others here. I like the idea of an incubation period, but I've seen valuable comments posted from new accounts- I bet a ton of people lurk for months before seeing a thread they feel they can make a valuable contribution to.
      - rbanffy 15y ago
        You may allow them to contribute - just make them work a little for it. Trolls are lazy - they won't go through a captcha just to harass other people - they'll go to Digg instead. And those who use throwaway logins to troll are also cowards, who don't want to be exposed as who they really are. We can work with that too.
    - logain20O6 15y ago
      It is a technological arms race. You'll never be able to prevent throwaway logins. E.g. the iPhone is probably the world's most locked up device, yet it gets jailbroken after every major update. In the end, you'll end up with the HN equivalent of the DRM measures some media companies use... PS - @jeffreyg: Free speech. I am guaranteed the right to be as offensive as I'd like. If you dislike that, I suggest you move to the North Korean HN.
      - rbanffy 15y ago
        We don't have (or, really, want) to prevent the use of quasi-anonymous logins. All we need is to make life more miserable to trolls than they make it for everyone else. With enough frustration, trolls will gravitate towards places where they can sublimate their frustrations more easily and, hopefully, leave HN for those who really want to engage in civil conversation.
  - Zirro 15y ago
    While this wouldn't be a bad idea (for this reason) if every IP-number was only linked to a single person behind the screen, I would expect a lot of people on HN to be hidden behind VPN's and other solutions for masking IP-addresses. These normally use the same IP-addresses for several people.
  - sdellysse 15y ago
    How about a "silent shadow" system? When an account reaches a slope on the negativekarma-time graph, just make it so that a very small, random group of users are the only ones who actually see what they posted. To everyone else, it would be as if they hadn't posted at all. All the while, if what they do post gets a large percentage of upvotes compared to the amount that see the post, shorten the "shadow silent" accordingly. It will not be made known to the user that their posts cannot be seen. They will have no reason to use alts, and we will have no reason to IP tracking, which could affect non-troll users.
    - logain2006 15y ago
      That is indeed, a pretty fucking retarded solution. I suggest the next time you see a "troll" post, you just tape over your monitor.
- angrycoder 15y ago
  I wouldn't call it stupid, so much as superficial. Those qualities, apart from the temporal connection, could be applied to most people who have achieved any notable stature.
  - logain20O6 15y ago
    For me, it is right up there with "Europe is a country".
  - rbanffy 15y ago
    He has that same drive, the unwillingness to compromise, Steve Jobs had. I don't find the comparison inadequate at all - not all people with notable stature have that lack of pragmatism both Stallman and Jobs present.
    - logain20O6 15y ago
      OK. So let me spell it out for you (and others, who appear to be confused): Obama is a charismatic leader. Hitler was a charismatic leader. Obama was elected democratically. Hitler was elected democratically. Obama wrote a biography. Barack Obama - Dreams from my father Hitler wrote a biography; Mein Kampf Obama held a rally in Berlin. Hitler held a rally in Berlin. ...etc. Therefore, Obama reminds me more of Hitler than anyone else does. (approx. quote from poster above) Now, do you see why this is an idiotic comparison?
      - Animus7 15y ago
        http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Godwins_law http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Godwins_law
        l0gain2006 15y ago
        http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sarcasm http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sarcasm Also, you might want to check out those studies that show the link between one's lack of ability to recognize sarcasm and dimentia.
- jgesture 15y ago
  It appears that you have committed the fallacy of composition here. The claim that Jobs and Stallaman have some similar characteristics is not the same as saying that they are the same. For example, you can objectively say that Hitler was an influential head of state (e.g. starting WW II) and FDR was an influential head of state. These are both true statements, while at the same time, these were two very different men.
paulhauggis 15y ago
"70's wunderkind" It's obvious he hasn't updated the technology in his house since the 70s. I still can't believe how he is browsing the web. "simple, clear belief about what computing should be" He pushes his own version of freedom upon the world at the expense of their freedom. "uncompromising in his determination to control his environment" Exactly. Personally, I'm glad he is becoming less and less relevant. Stallman is nothing more than a software dictator.
- yummyfajitas 15y ago
  Could you explain how Stallman is a "software dictator", or how his own version of freedom comes at the "expense of their freedom"?
  - antoncohen 15y ago
    > Could you explain how Stallman is a "software dictator", or how his own version of freedom comes at the "expense of their freedom"? Richard Stallman believes in the freedom of software, not the freedom of individuals. The GPL ensures that software is always free, by restricting what you as an individual can do with it. To him software being free in more important than a persons freedom. The BSD/MIT/ISC licenses give full freedom to people, including letting people make the software non-free, that is the freedom of choice. I personally believe in the freedom of people. I believe people should be able to make their own choices, even if I disagree with them. That to me is true freedom. Richard Stallman believes that everyone should do things his way, that people should not be allowed to choose to do things differently. To me that is a form of fascism (http://oxforddictionaries.com/definition/fascism http://oxforddictionaries.com/definition/fascism).
    - yummyfajitas 15y ago
      Making software non-free is not something an individual does with software. It is something an individual does to other individuals. You can do whatever you want with free software. You just can't prevent me from doing the same thing. Similarly, you might describe freedom of the press as a form of fascism - in a land with freedom of the press, you lose the "freedom" to censor my newspaper.

logain2006 15y ago

Wow. I think that's the stupidest thing I've heard in a while. Yes, Steve Jobs, the guy who wants absolute control over every single device that he sells you FOR MONEY - on both software AND hardware level is JUST LIKE Stallaman. I have to say, the quality of HN has gone so downhill recently, I might have to seek an alternative community.

jeffreyg 15y ago
If people were to pick one reason HN has 'gone downhill', disrespectful comment replies would top the list. A controversial feature request- when a new account reaches a negative karma level within a certain period, HN will display all other usernames associated with the IP address of the throwaway.
- logain2006 15y ago
  I disagree. Disrespectful comments are just a symptom of the disease. The disease is people saying unbelievably idiotic things, with no regard to fact or logic. Now, if no one were to post retarded bullshit like "Steve Jobs is so much like Stallman", it would be damn difficult for me to disrespect him/her. PS - The mere fact that many people decided to downvote the obvious facts in my previous post just says this place has quickly managed to fill up with fucking idiots.
  - rhizome 15y ago
    You're making it worse.
    - logain2OO6 15y ago
      @rhizome: Please return to sticking your head back up your ass and pretending that what you do on Rails is actually "coding".
    - logain2006 15y ago
      @rhizome Please return to sticking your head back up your ass and pretending that what you do on Rails is "coding".
  - deleted 15y ago
    [deleted]
- rbanffy 15y ago
  I'd suggest something different. Reduce the value of throwaway logins by making it impossible to comment for, say, 40 days. We can then modulate the quarantine period according to the level of hostility present on the site. Of coursesmart, flagging and hellbanning remains as usual.
  - jeffreyg 15y ago
    Yeah. My idea isn't great, just a frustrated response to this person who claims to have been here for a long time yet still feels it's appropriate to make offensive posts about others here. I like the idea of an incubation period, but I've seen valuable comments posted from new accounts- I bet a ton of people lurk for months before seeing a thread they feel they can make a valuable contribution to.
    - rbanffy 15y ago
      You may allow them to contribute - just make them work a little for it. Trolls are lazy - they won't go through a captcha just to harass other people - they'll go to Digg instead. And those who use throwaway logins to troll are also cowards, who don't want to be exposed as who they really are. We can work with that too.
  - logain20O6 15y ago
    It is a technological arms race. You'll never be able to prevent throwaway logins. E.g. the iPhone is probably the world's most locked up device, yet it gets jailbroken after every major update. In the end, you'll end up with the HN equivalent of the DRM measures some media companies use... PS - @jeffreyg: Free speech. I am guaranteed the right to be as offensive as I'd like. If you dislike that, I suggest you move to the North Korean HN.
    - rbanffy 15y ago
      We don't have (or, really, want) to prevent the use of quasi-anonymous logins. All we need is to make life more miserable to trolls than they make it for everyone else. With enough frustration, trolls will gravitate towards places where they can sublimate their frustrations more easily and, hopefully, leave HN for those who really want to engage in civil conversation.
- Zirro 15y ago
  While this wouldn't be a bad idea (for this reason) if every IP-number was only linked to a single person behind the screen, I would expect a lot of people on HN to be hidden behind VPN's and other solutions for masking IP-addresses. These normally use the same IP-addresses for several people.
- sdellysse 15y ago
  How about a "silent shadow" system? When an account reaches a slope on the negativekarma-time graph, just make it so that a very small, random group of users are the only ones who actually see what they posted. To everyone else, it would be as if they hadn't posted at all. All the while, if what they do post gets a large percentage of upvotes compared to the amount that see the post, shorten the "shadow silent" accordingly. It will not be made known to the user that their posts cannot be seen. They will have no reason to use alts, and we will have no reason to IP tracking, which could affect non-troll users.
  - logain2006 15y ago
    That is indeed, a pretty fucking retarded solution. I suggest the next time you see a "troll" post, you just tape over your monitor.
angrycoder 15y ago
I wouldn't call it stupid, so much as superficial. Those qualities, apart from the temporal connection, could be applied to most people who have achieved any notable stature.
- logain20O6 15y ago
  For me, it is right up there with "Europe is a country".
- rbanffy 15y ago
  He has that same drive, the unwillingness to compromise, Steve Jobs had. I don't find the comparison inadequate at all - not all people with notable stature have that lack of pragmatism both Stallman and Jobs present.
  - logain20O6 15y ago
    OK. So let me spell it out for you (and others, who appear to be confused): Obama is a charismatic leader. Hitler was a charismatic leader. Obama was elected democratically. Hitler was elected democratically. Obama wrote a biography. Barack Obama - Dreams from my father Hitler wrote a biography; Mein Kampf Obama held a rally in Berlin. Hitler held a rally in Berlin. ...etc. Therefore, Obama reminds me more of Hitler than anyone else does. (approx. quote from poster above) Now, do you see why this is an idiotic comparison?
    - Animus7 15y ago
      http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Godwins_law http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Godwins_law
      - l0gain2006 15y ago
        http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sarcasm http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sarcasm Also, you might want to check out those studies that show the link between one's lack of ability to recognize sarcasm and dimentia.
jgesture 15y ago
It appears that you have committed the fallacy of composition here. The claim that Jobs and Stallaman have some similar characteristics is not the same as saying that they are the same. For example, you can objectively say that Hitler was an influential head of state (e.g. starting WW II) and FDR was an influential head of state. These are both true statements, while at the same time, these were two very different men.

paulhauggis 15y ago

"70's wunderkind" It's obvious he hasn't updated the technology in his house since the 70s. I still can't believe how he is browsing the web. "simple, clear belief about what computing should be" He pushes his own version of freedom upon the world at the expense of their freedom. "uncompromising in his determination to control his environment" Exactly. Personally, I'm glad he is becoming less and less relevant. Stallman is nothing more than a software dictator.

yummyfajitas 15y ago
Could you explain how Stallman is a "software dictator", or how his own version of freedom comes at the "expense of their freedom"?
- antoncohen 15y ago
  > Could you explain how Stallman is a "software dictator", or how his own version of freedom comes at the "expense of their freedom"? Richard Stallman believes in the freedom of software, not the freedom of individuals. The GPL ensures that software is always free, by restricting what you as an individual can do with it. To him software being free in more important than a persons freedom. The BSD/MIT/ISC licenses give full freedom to people, including letting people make the software non-free, that is the freedom of choice. I personally believe in the freedom of people. I believe people should be able to make their own choices, even if I disagree with them. That to me is true freedom. Richard Stallman believes that everyone should do things his way, that people should not be allowed to choose to do things differently. To me that is a form of fascism (http://oxforddictionaries.com/definition/fascism http://oxforddictionaries.com/definition/fascism).
  - yummyfajitas 15y ago
    Making software non-free is not something an individual does with software. It is something an individual does to other individuals. You can do whatever you want with free software. You just can't prevent me from doing the same thing. Similarly, you might describe freedom of the press as a form of fascism - in a land with freedom of the press, you lose the "freedom" to censor my newspaper.