4 ms·

This is a good thing. One more bullshit job eliminated that only exists to make the numbers go up. This will be hard, but as a society, we need to examine the

This is a good thing. One more bullshit job eliminated that only exists to make the numbers go up. This will be hard, but as a society, we need to examine the entire reasoning behind "jobs" and why "more jobs = more gooder". The entire foundation of that line of thought is fundamentally flawed.

listenallyall 4y ago
If a job makes the "numbers" (by that I assume you mean revenue or profit) go up, then by definition, it's not a bullshit job, it's a productivity enhancer.
- Turskarama 4y ago
  It depends, you could just be stealing the numbers from elsewhere. One companies gain does not imply increased productivity in society.
  - listenallyall 4y ago
    Companies aren't trying (nor should they) to improve society's productivity, only their own.
    - Turskarama 4y ago
      Yes, well, that doesn't exactly go against my point does it?
- wildrhythms 4y ago
  'Bullshit jobs' is an indictment of the socioeconomic system that enables such jobs to exist in the first place. It is not an indictment of the individual doing the job; the psychological association between oneself and their bullshit job is at the heart of the analysis. I like this definition: >"a form of paid employment that is so completely pointless, unnecessary, or pernicious that even the employee cannot justify its existence even though, as part of the conditions of employment, the employee feels obliged to pretend that this is not the case." https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bullshit_Jobs https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bullshit_Jobs
  - listenallyall 4y ago
    Right, which is why, by definition, if a person's job improves revenue or profit (i.e. "numbers go up") then it isn't "pointless" or "unnecessary," therefore it isn't a bullshit job. Thanks for clearing that up.
albertopv 4y ago
Until that jobs is yours, because not everyone is an AI scientist/developer. Prepare for social unrest.
- sheperd209 4y ago
  Do Software engineers/Developers really feel they are safe here? Maybe the top dogs who are working on groundbreaking stuff, but as a normal backend/DevOps dude, I am fucking terrified.
- oceanplexian 4y ago
  Where I live, at lest in a medium-sized town in the US, there's a huge amount of work in hospitality, construction, skilled trades, healthcare, and every other field you can imagine. The only commonality is that none of those careers include "making content" or "social media". It's like at some point during the COVID pandemic people forgot that everyone can't sit at a computer.
  - seanicus 4y ago
    Enjoy your schadenfreude. I legitimately hope it doesn't happen to you!
  - notfromhere 4y ago
    “It’s fine if it happens to someone else”
  - eleitl 4y ago
    Hospitality and healthcare occupations are doing badly in much of the Western World. Construction is highly seasonal, and arguably much of it is currently driven by an investment bubble rather than organic demand which could pop, ending in a long winter. Skilled trades, maybe, but you need a healthy job market so that people can afford these. While these occupations are safe from AI, for time being, they're not safe per se.
    - LapsangGuzzler 4y ago
cnelsenmilt 4y ago
Said elsewhere previously[0] but the reason is simple: because the only way we as a society have to distribute a stable supply of food and shelter is for (most) every individual to have a job. "more jobs = more gooder" flows directly from that: "people need food → food requires job → we need jobs". Changing that has to come before the bullshit jobs are wiped out or there will be an even worse situation. [0]:https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=35470255 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=35470255

listenallyall 4y ago

If a job makes the "numbers" (by that I assume you mean revenue or profit) go up, then by definition, it's not a bullshit job, it's a productivity enhancer.

Turskarama 4y ago
It depends, you could just be stealing the numbers from elsewhere. One companies gain does not imply increased productivity in society.
- listenallyall 4y ago
  Companies aren't trying (nor should they) to improve society's productivity, only their own.
  - Turskarama 4y ago
    Yes, well, that doesn't exactly go against my point does it?
wildrhythms 4y ago
'Bullshit jobs' is an indictment of the socioeconomic system that enables such jobs to exist in the first place. It is not an indictment of the individual doing the job; the psychological association between oneself and their bullshit job is at the heart of the analysis. I like this definition: >"a form of paid employment that is so completely pointless, unnecessary, or pernicious that even the employee cannot justify its existence even though, as part of the conditions of employment, the employee feels obliged to pretend that this is not the case." https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bullshit_Jobs https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bullshit_Jobs
- listenallyall 4y ago
  Right, which is why, by definition, if a person's job improves revenue or profit (i.e. "numbers go up") then it isn't "pointless" or "unnecessary," therefore it isn't a bullshit job. Thanks for clearing that up.

albertopv 4y ago

Until that jobs is yours, because not everyone is an AI scientist/developer. Prepare for social unrest.

sheperd209 4y ago
Do Software engineers/Developers really feel they are safe here? Maybe the top dogs who are working on groundbreaking stuff, but as a normal backend/DevOps dude, I am fucking terrified.
oceanplexian 4y ago
Where I live, at lest in a medium-sized town in the US, there's a huge amount of work in hospitality, construction, skilled trades, healthcare, and every other field you can imagine. The only commonality is that none of those careers include "making content" or "social media". It's like at some point during the COVID pandemic people forgot that everyone can't sit at a computer.
- seanicus 4y ago
  Enjoy your schadenfreude. I legitimately hope it doesn't happen to you!
- notfromhere 4y ago
  “It’s fine if it happens to someone else”
- eleitl 4y ago
  Hospitality and healthcare occupations are doing badly in much of the Western World. Construction is highly seasonal, and arguably much of it is currently driven by an investment bubble rather than organic demand which could pop, ending in a long winter. Skilled trades, maybe, but you need a healthy job market so that people can afford these. While these occupations are safe from AI, for time being, they're not safe per se.
  - LapsangGuzzler 4y ago

cnelsenmilt 4y ago

Said elsewhere previously[0] but the reason is simple: because the only way we as a society have to distribute a stable supply of food and shelter is for (most) every individual to have a job. "more jobs = more gooder" flows directly from that: "people need food → food requires job → we need jobs". Changing that has to come before the bullshit jobs are wiped out or there will be an even worse situation. [0]:https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=35470255 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=35470255