4 ms·

I think Reagan was an absolute disaster responsible for a lot of our problems today, but this isn’t one of them. Mental institutions of Reagan’s era were a huma

by creato 4y ago

I think Reagan was an absolute disaster responsible for a lot of our problems today, but this isn’t one of them. Mental institutions of Reagan’s era were a humanitarian nightmare. But, I am not sure there is a humane solution to serious mental illness. It requires the attention and care that probably only immediate family members are capable of providing, while simultaneously requiring medical treatment and security that only mental institutions are capable of providing. The problem we are having today is we’ve excused criminal behavior due to mental illness. I agree prison probably is inappropriate in most cases, but so is just letting them back on the street.

fnordpiglet 4y ago
They were in some, but not all cases. Turning them out into the streets to rot in the gutter while they spiral out in their insanity is certainly morally more convenient, but not, IMO, superior to attempting to build an infrastructure that provides treatment and long term care for people suffering so deeply as this. Freedom that’s a living hell isn’t freedom, it’s just freedom from responsibility for caring. A lot of seriously mentally ill folks burn their family care due to the extreme burden it places on them, and the fact a lot of mania and schizophrenia accompanies a willful belief in their own sanity and autonomy, and a lack of personal knowledge of their state. This makes keeping them under care and medications extraordinarily difficult. Prison isn’t the answer. Mental health facilities is. That’s the real alternative to letting them back into the streets. Prisons aren’t equipped to treat anyone.
- seanp2k2 3y ago
  >”Freedom that’s a living hell isn’t freedom, it’s just freedom from responsibility for caring.” The problem is that the latter is far too attractive and convenient for a large percentage of this country. Then simply move out of a city center, get some guns, put up some fences, and it’s no longer a problem that you’re directly personally affected by.
seanp2k2 3y ago
And most importantly in “free market”-loving America, lots and lots of funding that no one is willing to provide. When they inevitably break some laws, it’s easier for everyone to swallow their obscene housing costs under the guise of “we’re keeping these criminals away from society”.
fnordpiglet 3y ago
I would note, a bit late on the thread, the nightmare was mostly marketing on the anti mental health front stemming from a Nixon-Reagan continuum in the conservative movement of the time. My father is a phd clinical psychology and spent his early career doing fellowships and residencies in various public inpatient hospitals for the deeply disturbed (the folks you see on the street now). They were not like you believe, by in large, and the people who work in those environments largely work there out of human compassion, not avarice. My great grandmother worked as nurse in a Wild West sanitarium - now that was a different story. If you dig into news about current inpatient care for the mentally ill, I think you’ll see something white washed but not too dissimilar to the past sanitariums. Heavily medicated patients confined to close quarters without much supervision and that that exists is unskilled providers, with 30 minutes or less of professional care a week. Patients frequently assault each other and because they’re often placed their by the police for criminally insane behavior there’s no recourse or different place to move them to just an upgrade to their charges. Sexual assaults are rampant by staff and patients. It’s barbaric, but even then, there aren’t enough beds so people in crisis have to wait months getting limited care through outpatient if they have find a psychiatrist with an opening- most don’t take insurance, and even then it can be a six month wait.

by creato 4y ago

fnordpiglet 4y ago

They were in some, but not all cases. Turning them out into the streets to rot in the gutter while they spiral out in their insanity is certainly morally more convenient, but not, IMO, superior to attempting to build an infrastructure that provides treatment and long term care for people suffering so deeply as this. Freedom that’s a living hell isn’t freedom, it’s just freedom from responsibility for caring. A lot of seriously mentally ill folks burn their family care due to the extreme burden it places on them, and the fact a lot of mania and schizophrenia accompanies a willful belief in their own sanity and autonomy, and a lack of personal knowledge of their state. This makes keeping them under care and medications extraordinarily difficult. Prison isn’t the answer. Mental health facilities is. That’s the real alternative to letting them back into the streets. Prisons aren’t equipped to treat anyone.

seanp2k2 3y ago
>”Freedom that’s a living hell isn’t freedom, it’s just freedom from responsibility for caring.” The problem is that the latter is far too attractive and convenient for a large percentage of this country. Then simply move out of a city center, get some guns, put up some fences, and it’s no longer a problem that you’re directly personally affected by.

seanp2k2 3y ago

And most importantly in “free market”-loving America, lots and lots of funding that no one is willing to provide. When they inevitably break some laws, it’s easier for everyone to swallow their obscene housing costs under the guise of “we’re keeping these criminals away from society”.

fnordpiglet 3y ago

I would note, a bit late on the thread, the nightmare was mostly marketing on the anti mental health front stemming from a Nixon-Reagan continuum in the conservative movement of the time. My father is a phd clinical psychology and spent his early career doing fellowships and residencies in various public inpatient hospitals for the deeply disturbed (the folks you see on the street now). They were not like you believe, by in large, and the people who work in those environments largely work there out of human compassion, not avarice. My great grandmother worked as nurse in a Wild West sanitarium - now that was a different story. If you dig into news about current inpatient care for the mentally ill, I think you’ll see something white washed but not too dissimilar to the past sanitariums. Heavily medicated patients confined to close quarters without much supervision and that that exists is unskilled providers, with 30 minutes or less of professional care a week. Patients frequently assault each other and because they’re often placed their by the police for criminally insane behavior there’s no recourse or different place to move them to just an upgrade to their charges. Sexual assaults are rampant by staff and patients. It’s barbaric, but even then, there aren’t enough beds so people in crisis have to wait months getting limited care through outpatient if they have find a psychiatrist with an opening- most don’t take insurance, and even then it can be a six month wait.