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> I wouldn't want the government to control jeans manufacturing Of course you do. You want asbestos to be banned in the clothes you buy. You want labelling of

> I wouldn't want the government to control jeans manufacturing Of course you do. You want asbestos to be banned in the clothes you buy. You want labelling of material to not be lies. You want child labour banned. You want slavery banned. You want trademark protection. You want the factory to not dump toxic waste in the nearby river. And you say "well, of course I want that, but not... I dunno..." and give some hypothetical. Well, the same with cryptocurrency. If you think you want to get rid of all financial regulation, including AML/KYC, then I don't think you've thought about the issue for more than a fleeting moment.

overthrow 4y ago
I literally said the laws should apply to all kinds of property equally - yet you think I "want to get rid of all financial regulation"? I hope you enjoyed building that strawman and then tearing it down
- asimpletune 4y ago
  I mean, you did say you wouldn’t want the government regulating jeans manufacturing.
- knorker 4y ago
  So what did you mean by saying jeans manufacturing should not be regulated, and only (?) jeans (and other goods) ownership should be regulated?
  - overthrow 4y ago
    You're putting words in my mouth. I never used the word "regulated" at all. I said "controlled" - meaning the government should not be the sole entity allowed to own and operate a factory that produces jeans. (I hope that's not the contentious point here.) I believe jeans manufacturing should be regulated by the government, but not controlled by the government. And even if the government gives up control, it does not give up its ability to regulate. Do you agree that, even though the government does not itself manufacture a pair of jeans using taxpayer money, the government can still prosecute theft of those jeans? If so, it should not be a stretch to understand that even though the government does not issue a certain private sector money, it can still prosecute theft of that private sector money.
    - knorker 4y ago
      Ah, I see. That kind of control. So in this analogy the government should regulate cryptocurrency mining (production), import, export, domestic transfer, exchange, disposal, loans, etc…? In other words, you're saying that cryptocurrencies should be treated as goods, not monetary instruments? I'll give you the benefit of the doubt and say that's not quite what you mean. It sounds like you (and I've heard this from other pro-cryptocurrency advocates) want to carve out a new type of asset, basically with the exact purpose to avoid all existing legislation. This common argument says that it's just like money, but should not be regulated as currency. It's actually much more like a commodity, but should not be regulated like one. It can act as a security, but should definitely not be regulated like one. Commodities are subject to sales tax/VAT at delivery. Cryptocurrency's delivery is instant, or never. That's not clever avoidance, that's just trying to eat your cake and have it too.
      - overthrow 4y ago
        > It sounds like you want to carve out a new type of asset That's not what I'm saying either. Crypto is just mundane property (like jeans), and property already has plenty of legislation around it. Existing laws work just fine. For example, capital gains applies equally as much to jeans as crypto (if for some reason your jeans appreciated 100x in value and you sold them). The original comment I replied to claimed crypto should be entirely free of the justice system - THAT would actually be a new legal classification. Afaik the government has never before exempted any kind of property from theft laws. I only posted to point out that inconsistency.
        knorker 4y ago
        Ok, so sales tax/VAT on cryptocurrencies? You'll be pretty alone advocating for that, I think. At least it's a path I've not heard before.
        overthrow 4y ago
        The word property encompasses more than just what sales tax laws apply to, no? For example, I'd consider an old-school physical stock certificate a kind of property, and subject to theft laws but not sales tax. As far as classifying it more specifically, I don't have strong opinions. Gensler says BTC is a commodity and ETH is a security--that sounds fine to me, ship it. I'll let the regulators regulate. I'm just pushing back against this idea that private sector money must exist outside of the law and outside of the justice system—because the anarchy approach is clearly absurd.

overthrow 4y ago

I literally said the laws should apply to all kinds of property equally - yet you think I "want to get rid of all financial regulation"? I hope you enjoyed building that strawman and then tearing it down

asimpletune 4y ago
I mean, you did say you wouldn’t want the government regulating jeans manufacturing.
knorker 4y ago
So what did you mean by saying jeans manufacturing should not be regulated, and only (?) jeans (and other goods) ownership should be regulated?
- overthrow 4y ago
  You're putting words in my mouth. I never used the word "regulated" at all. I said "controlled" - meaning the government should not be the sole entity allowed to own and operate a factory that produces jeans. (I hope that's not the contentious point here.) I believe jeans manufacturing should be regulated by the government, but not controlled by the government. And even if the government gives up control, it does not give up its ability to regulate. Do you agree that, even though the government does not itself manufacture a pair of jeans using taxpayer money, the government can still prosecute theft of those jeans? If so, it should not be a stretch to understand that even though the government does not issue a certain private sector money, it can still prosecute theft of that private sector money.
  - knorker 4y ago
    Ah, I see. That kind of control. So in this analogy the government should regulate cryptocurrency mining (production), import, export, domestic transfer, exchange, disposal, loans, etc…? In other words, you're saying that cryptocurrencies should be treated as goods, not monetary instruments? I'll give you the benefit of the doubt and say that's not quite what you mean. It sounds like you (and I've heard this from other pro-cryptocurrency advocates) want to carve out a new type of asset, basically with the exact purpose to avoid all existing legislation. This common argument says that it's just like money, but should not be regulated as currency. It's actually much more like a commodity, but should not be regulated like one. It can act as a security, but should definitely not be regulated like one. Commodities are subject to sales tax/VAT at delivery. Cryptocurrency's delivery is instant, or never. That's not clever avoidance, that's just trying to eat your cake and have it too.
    - overthrow 4y ago
      > It sounds like you want to carve out a new type of asset That's not what I'm saying either. Crypto is just mundane property (like jeans), and property already has plenty of legislation around it. Existing laws work just fine. For example, capital gains applies equally as much to jeans as crypto (if for some reason your jeans appreciated 100x in value and you sold them). The original comment I replied to claimed crypto should be entirely free of the justice system - THAT would actually be a new legal classification. Afaik the government has never before exempted any kind of property from theft laws. I only posted to point out that inconsistency.
      - knorker 4y ago
        Ok, so sales tax/VAT on cryptocurrencies? You'll be pretty alone advocating for that, I think. At least it's a path I've not heard before.
        overthrow 4y ago
        The word property encompasses more than just what sales tax laws apply to, no? For example, I'd consider an old-school physical stock certificate a kind of property, and subject to theft laws but not sales tax. As far as classifying it more specifically, I don't have strong opinions. Gensler says BTC is a commodity and ETH is a security--that sounds fine to me, ship it. I'll let the regulators regulate. I'm just pushing back against this idea that private sector money must exist outside of the law and outside of the justice system—because the anarchy approach is clearly absurd.