5 ms·

Or they're people who see the convenience and flexibility of an EV and are comfortable with purchasing a used EV. If you're not a Musk fan, the field is becomi

by ajford 4y ago

Or they're people who see the convenience and flexibility of an EV and are comfortable with purchasing a used EV. If you're not a Musk fan, the field is becoming competitive. There's a handful of models with 150+mi range that are in the <$30k USD bracket when new, and many models on the used market are now <$30k USD as well. And just because you are charging at WalMart doesn't mean you need to be shopping there on the regular. An EV fast-charger is not designed to be your neighborhood gas station, they're more like travel stops. Since most EVs will sit in a driveway for 8-10hrs a day, even a 120v charger should get you ~40 miles in that time frame. You should ideally be able to keep your vehicle topped up on Level 1 or Level 2 (240v) charging and DC Fast Charging is more of a road-trip or extended range system. Most fast-charge capable cars can hit go from 10%-80% in 30-45 minutes, which is a decent amount of time to hit a convenient Wal-Mart for travel snacks and leg stretching. It sounds like a valid idea when put that way.

dzhiurgis 4y ago
> If you're not a Musk fan, the field is becoming competitive In my place you get 20% less for 10% more, but Tesla still looks flashy and I feel a bit like a wanker. Much worse for my partner who hoards free stuff, esp kids toys from giveaway FB groups :|
- uni_rule 4y ago
  Funny how they still have an image issue related to being driven by rich vegans or whatever else people think of them they see them. It made more sense in 2014 when seeing a Model S was as exotic as seeing a McLaren. Now I am fairly desensitized to seeing Model 3's and Y's as commuter cars between NJ and NY and the merely seeing badge doesn't really do anything for me these days. It's weird how much a car's price and perceived price can vary when you actually look at how things depreciate. Seeing a Quattroporte and F-150 King Ranch next to each other and noting that used the Maserati is a $15k car and while the truck is nearly $75k is really odd. Teslas hardly depreciate at all through, so I guess that adds to it.
  - lotsofpulp 4y ago
    > Teslas hardly depreciate at all through, so I guess that adds to it. How can this be if the battery is a huge portion of the vehicle’s cost and it has a limited lifetime?
    - WorldMaker 4y ago
      The battery's "limited lifetime" is currently longer than the expected lifespan of the car. The vast majority of EV batteries are still in "first use" and that is including more than a decade of Nissan Leafs (the model with the worst issues of battery "degradation" known to the used market). People are still driving the first and only battery of the car into a car's second decade (and likely will into its third, but it is too soon to tell). Statistically speaking, an EV is more likely to be totaled entirely in an accident than to have its battery replaced.
    - starbase 4y ago
      Engines have limited lifetime too, but I get your concern. Most people's experience with Li-ion batteries is portable electronics that are designed to last 5 years or so. EV batteries are designed (and their charge state managed) to last much longer. As a rule of thumb, the battery in a long range EV (NMC or NCA chemistry) will have 70% of its original range after 1200 full charge cycles (charging 0-100% 1200 times, or charging 25-75% 2400 times) So a car with 350mi range when new will have 245 mile range after about 400,000 miles. EVs with lithium-iron batteries (LFP chem) have shorter range (250 miles or so) but they can do about 3000 cycles or 700,000 miles before their range falls to 70%, or 175 miles. Still potentially useful, depending on how far you need to go. I would imagine most of the EVs on the road today will succumb to rust or collisions before their battery gives out.
  - bdcravens 4y ago
    > Teslas hardly depreciate at all through, The price of used Teslas has plummeted by 20% in recent months. https://www.greencarreports.com/news/1139159_tesla-model-3-leads-a-nosedive-in-used-ev-prices https://www.greencarreports.com/news/1139159_tesla-model-3-l...

by ajford 4y ago

dzhiurgis 4y ago

> If you're not a Musk fan, the field is becoming competitive In my place you get 20% less for 10% more, but Tesla still looks flashy and I feel a bit like a wanker. Much worse for my partner who hoards free stuff, esp kids toys from giveaway FB groups :|

uni_rule 4y ago
Funny how they still have an image issue related to being driven by rich vegans or whatever else people think of them they see them. It made more sense in 2014 when seeing a Model S was as exotic as seeing a McLaren. Now I am fairly desensitized to seeing Model 3's and Y's as commuter cars between NJ and NY and the merely seeing badge doesn't really do anything for me these days. It's weird how much a car's price and perceived price can vary when you actually look at how things depreciate. Seeing a Quattroporte and F-150 King Ranch next to each other and noting that used the Maserati is a $15k car and while the truck is nearly $75k is really odd. Teslas hardly depreciate at all through, so I guess that adds to it.
- lotsofpulp 4y ago
  > Teslas hardly depreciate at all through, so I guess that adds to it. How can this be if the battery is a huge portion of the vehicle’s cost and it has a limited lifetime?
  - WorldMaker 4y ago
    The battery's "limited lifetime" is currently longer than the expected lifespan of the car. The vast majority of EV batteries are still in "first use" and that is including more than a decade of Nissan Leafs (the model with the worst issues of battery "degradation" known to the used market). People are still driving the first and only battery of the car into a car's second decade (and likely will into its third, but it is too soon to tell). Statistically speaking, an EV is more likely to be totaled entirely in an accident than to have its battery replaced.
  - starbase 4y ago
    Engines have limited lifetime too, but I get your concern. Most people's experience with Li-ion batteries is portable electronics that are designed to last 5 years or so. EV batteries are designed (and their charge state managed) to last much longer. As a rule of thumb, the battery in a long range EV (NMC or NCA chemistry) will have 70% of its original range after 1200 full charge cycles (charging 0-100% 1200 times, or charging 25-75% 2400 times) So a car with 350mi range when new will have 245 mile range after about 400,000 miles. EVs with lithium-iron batteries (LFP chem) have shorter range (250 miles or so) but they can do about 3000 cycles or 700,000 miles before their range falls to 70%, or 175 miles. Still potentially useful, depending on how far you need to go. I would imagine most of the EVs on the road today will succumb to rust or collisions before their battery gives out.
- bdcravens 4y ago
  > Teslas hardly depreciate at all through, The price of used Teslas has plummeted by 20% in recent months. https://www.greencarreports.com/news/1139159_tesla-model-3-leads-a-nosedive-in-used-ev-prices https://www.greencarreports.com/news/1139159_tesla-model-3-l...