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My frank experience with women in tech is that I see absolutley no difference with men except women tend to be more organized (I am a mess so what do I know).

by _8j50 4y ago

My frank experience with women in tech is that I see absolutley no difference with men except women tend to be more organized (I am a mess so what do I know). But a pattern I keep seeing is women become unhappy in roles that are not very socially engaging. And this isn't because they are women but because of social expectations and upbringing. Women who just do the job because they like it just like male counterparts do great (or not). My point is that even though there are many women interested in STEM at the outset, how they see themselves matters a lot when talking about job satisfaction. I've met multiple women over my career that were just brilliant but they set themselves up to be in management or other roles that aren't very technical but require social skills and all the while I want to ask them why they want to do that when they can just be a rockstar in technical roles and this is the only explanation I have. Just to be clear, I am only talking about the majority I have seen. Perhaps everyone just leans into their strength and it is easier for women to be socially succesful? I feel like in tech at least, there is a competition to get women working in your team and management wins a lot.

aviditas 4y ago
As someone with excellent social skills in a technical field, I constantly get pushed towards management. In terms of upward salary momentum, I understand why a lot of women go that route. Investment of time to return is high if you are successful there. If you are constantly being told that you'd be a good fit for management, it makes sense that most people would gravitate towards it as a career. I like to say that I am happy to be a leader in a technical role but have zero desire to be 'in management'. Interfacing with other teams and departments is critical for the long-term success of my work, but the bulk of my time is spent on heads down technical stuff. I wish there were more opportunities for everyone to try out having direct reports without it being a path of no return (or path of difficult to turn back). My experience with being a supervisor 10+ years ago was very valuable in that I found that while I was moderately good at it, the constant required social interaction for 90% of the day was massively draining and left me a blob after work.
- skuxxlife 4y ago
  I unfortunately also have had the experience of being pushed towards management, even though I'd say I have only slightly above average social skills. At a former job I was told I could be promoted to a senior software engineer in "3-4 years" (this was 8 years into my career after multiple years of "greatly exceeds expectations" reviews at this company) or I could become a manager. I held off for awhile since I had no real desire to manage, but I could talk to people and organize things so eventually that felt like my only way up. I did it for a year and hated it, then quit to be a technical founder at a startup, which is actually less stressful and way more enjoyable. I guess it worked out for me in the end (though I should have left way sooner), but I know I am not the only woman who had similar experiences at that company which makes me sad.
Traubenfuchs 4y ago
> And this isn't because they are women but because of social expectations and upbringing. How do you know that? I think this is coded into our genes and caused by our brain wiring and hormones. And there is absolutely nothing wrong with that. I agree by the way. I never saw any females in a technical role beyond "senior engineer", as they usually seem to disappear into team lead / SM / PM / PO roles.
- commandlinefan 4y ago
  > this is coded into our genes and caused by our brain wiring If this were the case, you'd continue to see relatively few women in highly technical roles, despite a half-century of scorched-earth attempts to change that... which is what we do see. Is there an alternate explanation?
- _8j50 4y ago
  I know that because I do see women in certain EU countries (Poland or Romania for example) or from countries where coding and office work hasn't had a strong "only boys allowed" history (only russia and india come to mind, maybe china?) do as well as male counterparts and stay as long in technical aspects. This is from my limited experience in non-tech multinationals. I also see men who are as much social and organized as women and there are polar opposites like myself and the common denominator is how we view ourselves fitting into the world which is a product of environment, culture and upbringing.

by _8j50 4y ago

aviditas 4y ago

As someone with excellent social skills in a technical field, I constantly get pushed towards management. In terms of upward salary momentum, I understand why a lot of women go that route. Investment of time to return is high if you are successful there. If you are constantly being told that you'd be a good fit for management, it makes sense that most people would gravitate towards it as a career. I like to say that I am happy to be a leader in a technical role but have zero desire to be 'in management'. Interfacing with other teams and departments is critical for the long-term success of my work, but the bulk of my time is spent on heads down technical stuff. I wish there were more opportunities for everyone to try out having direct reports without it being a path of no return (or path of difficult to turn back). My experience with being a supervisor 10+ years ago was very valuable in that I found that while I was moderately good at it, the constant required social interaction for 90% of the day was massively draining and left me a blob after work.

skuxxlife 4y ago
I unfortunately also have had the experience of being pushed towards management, even though I'd say I have only slightly above average social skills. At a former job I was told I could be promoted to a senior software engineer in "3-4 years" (this was 8 years into my career after multiple years of "greatly exceeds expectations" reviews at this company) or I could become a manager. I held off for awhile since I had no real desire to manage, but I could talk to people and organize things so eventually that felt like my only way up. I did it for a year and hated it, then quit to be a technical founder at a startup, which is actually less stressful and way more enjoyable. I guess it worked out for me in the end (though I should have left way sooner), but I know I am not the only woman who had similar experiences at that company which makes me sad.

Traubenfuchs 4y ago

> And this isn't because they are women but because of social expectations and upbringing. How do you know that? I think this is coded into our genes and caused by our brain wiring and hormones. And there is absolutely nothing wrong with that. I agree by the way. I never saw any females in a technical role beyond "senior engineer", as they usually seem to disappear into team lead / SM / PM / PO roles.

commandlinefan 4y ago
> this is coded into our genes and caused by our brain wiring If this were the case, you'd continue to see relatively few women in highly technical roles, despite a half-century of scorched-earth attempts to change that... which is what we do see. Is there an alternate explanation?
_8j50 4y ago
I know that because I do see women in certain EU countries (Poland or Romania for example) or from countries where coding and office work hasn't had a strong "only boys allowed" history (only russia and india come to mind, maybe china?) do as well as male counterparts and stay as long in technical aspects. This is from my limited experience in non-tech multinationals. I also see men who are as much social and organized as women and there are polar opposites like myself and the common denominator is how we view ourselves fitting into the world which is a product of environment, culture and upbringing.